Tesla fans all over the world are learning the hard way they should have bought a hybrid or a second vehicle.
From Britain;
Tesla owners’ fury at Christmas electric car chaos: Drivers demand more charging stations after the UK’s 6,712 rapid charge points for 420,000 electric vehicles leaves people waiting for THREE HOURS
Motorists say more charging points are needed to cater for the electric cars
Vehicles were logjammed in Hertfordshire, Cumbria, Westmorland and Telford
The queues came as millions took to the roads to get home for the festive period
Are you a Tesla driver who was stuck? Email dan.sales@mailonline.co.uk
PUBLISHED: 20:51 AEDT, 29 December 2022 | UPDATED: 02:40 AEDT, 30 December 2022
Electric car drivers have called for more charging points to be installed across the UK after some Tesla owners were left queuing for three hours.
Chaos engulfed the electric motoring network as demand appeared to outstrip supply in come areas.
According to data from Zap Map there are currently 6712 rapid and ultra-rapid charging devices, across locations in the UK catering for the 420,000 plus cars.
Members of a Facebook group called ‘Tesla Owners Club UK’ expressed their frustration at the queues.
As electric vehicles become more common, access to charging stations can increasingly result in long lines.
Tesla owners posted videos and photos of long lines and broken chargers at Tesla Supercharger stations on social media around Thanksgiving.
These complaints indicate that Tesla and other electric vehicle manufacturers will have to build more charging stations, and convince customers that they’re reliably available before the cars really take hold, Business Insider transportation reporter Mark Matousek wrote.
Thanksgiving is one of the busiest travel times of the year, and some Tesla and other electric vehicle owners faced extra inconveniences when it came time to charge their vehicles.
Tesla owners can typically do most of their charging at home, but at certain points demand spikes, according to Karl Brauer of Autotrader and Kelley Blue Book, via Business Insider transportation reporter Mark Matousek. One of those times is around holiday travel when road trips are more common and people would need to stop to recharge.
Like other electric vehicle companies, Tesla is expanding its charging network, although apparently not fast enough to prevent long waits over the holiday.
…
One California charging station had a line down the block of cars waiting to charge.
So there are a few people at the big 40-stall Tesla Supercharger in Kettleman City. 😕 pic.twitter.com/KA41DOoZXy
Building enough chargers to handle these surges in demand might reduce the queues, but someone would have to pay for the capital costs and upkeep of hundreds of chargers which would lay idle for most of the year.
If only there was a way to recharge a vehicle quickly, so a small number of charge points can service an unusually large number of automobiles without a serious additional delay. Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.
Correction (EW): The US story is from 2019. If anyone has any December 2022 charger queue stories be sure to post them.
If you can charge them overnight at home and your daily round trip commute is within the car’s range it’s better than an ICE car. Just don’t take it beyond that range or possibly suffer the consequences. EVs are still a niche car.
Well described as to exactly what they are. And nothing more. When I see a Tesla, I think there is an idiot behind that steering wheel. And avoid being anywhere near it.
Total BS
Tesla EV model 3 compared with Toyota Corolla ICE
Much higher price for Tesla
Much lower reliability for Tesla
Higher insurance cost for Tesla
Very inconvenient EV “refueling”
Inaccurate, unpredictable EV distance to empty gauge
Lower EV range in cold weather
Very slow EV charging with 115 volts at home
Slow EV charging with 240 volts at home
Batteries deterieorate from fast charging on the road
Fast charging only possible to 80% of battery capacity
EVs are a total loser.
Better than an ICE car is BS
Here in SE Michigan an EV charged with DTE Energy electricity is a 58% coal car.
Even worse their beloved hero Elon Musk now favors free speech, which leftists hate, so now owning a Tesla is no longer the virtue signl it once was.
Better to buy a much cheaper ICE and put an emblem on the back that says “ELECTRIC”, in big letters, and “RADIO”, in tiny letters. Tell any nosy neighbors that what looks like an exhaust pipe is really a Cabin Air Circulation Exhaust Vent, nit an old fashioned exhaust pipe. Then you can virtue signal and have a good, convenient, reasonably priced car too.
A neighbor of mine has a ~10-year old Toyota Yaris that he has dangled a short length of standard electric power cord with 3-point plug end from under under the front bumper.
I often see this car at local supermarkets parked in the electric vehicles charging station spaces. Not connected to anything of course.
I don’t think this practice has ever been challenged.
In more northern climes, cars often come equipped with electric oil heaters, so that the oil doesn’t too cold to flow when the car is parked for long periods.
Goose Bay AFB, Labrador. At the parking areas are high lines on telephone pools with lines hanging down to the front of each parking space for plugging in engine block heaters.
At the yard where I park my truck there are outlets for plugging in at each of the 267 numbered spaces.
As I write this my truck is plugged in and when I parked it Thursday afternoon I turned off the truck master power switch to conserve the batteries. During this time of year freight often gets slow and so I did not know how long my truck would be parked. The manufacture recommends the master switch be turned off if the truck is to sit for 3 days or more.
The garage has the master power switch for all those outlets hooked in with a thermostat and when it gets warmer as it is now the electricity to the outlets is switched off.
That set up however is not adequate when it gets down around -15 because despite the use of winter fuel treatment the fuel will gel in the fuel line and if there was any moisture on the drum brakes the shoes will freeze to the drums.
Then the mechanics come around with a salamander to thaw things out. Beating on the drums with a 3 lb hammer will speed the release of the brakes.
Before I parked it Thursday I fueled, checked all fluid levels, and added a gallon of windshield washer fluid. I pulled the four different cable lanyards which actuate the drain valves on the air tanks to purge them of water. I do all of that every time I am going to park it during the winter months. Washed all windows, mirrors and lights to get the white film off them, and greased the fifth wheel.
I never asked and can’t remember what it said in the manual but the garage seems to have them set to get power at about 30 F. I don’t generally plug in unless it there is a possibility for the temp to drop below 20 F.
However those are not the true limits. I have started big trucks without being plugged in when it has been below zero plenty of times in the past.
Part of the key is fuel treatment.
In diesel buses that are meant to operate in really cold temps you will find a button that activates either start.
In the northern states the larger truck stop chains now put in the fuel treatment during the winter and at the fuel island at our terminal the same. I keep a couple of pints in the tool box just in case.
The main fuel treatment is adding kerosene. Refineries supplying cold climates produce diesel with a higher kerosene content in winter months, aiming at a CFPP (cold filter plugging point) spec well below freezing. The trade off is that kerosene lowers cetane, so that restricts the use of other lower cetane blending components (primarily cycle oils from catalytic cracking processes), and affects crude choices.
Also, arctic diesel (which may even contain elements of gasoline fractions to help with startability) doesn’t play nice with common rail diesel injector engines.
This could be explained with a little more chemistry. Kerosene is a blend of hydrocarbons with the general formula CxH(2x+2). It is C9H20 up to C20H42. Diesel is C16H34 up to C22H46. So there is a big overlap. The energy per kg is about the same, the energy per litre is light different. Nothing to write home about. Paraffin wax for making candles is just a much longer chain that is solid at room temperature, like C60H122.
Winter diesel has more of the lighter fractions (shorter chain molecules) and in summer the blend is on the heavier end.
Kerosene is also modified in this manner. Producers will run a little heavier to limit evaporation in summer.
There are other additives of course but the main content is long stripes of carbon flame by pairs of hydrogen atoms like a centipede.
The truck stops of the big chains put in the treatment the ones in the south don’t. That is why I carry a couple pints in my tool box.
For example, it’s about 1,440 miles from Anderson, IN to Laredo, TX. One can run into a whole lot of different weather between locations that far apart.
I just did a search and I found a comment on a blog that said the GM Duramax diesel block heater has a thermostat that turns the heater on at 0 F, and GM does not recommend using the block heater under 0 F.
Apparently the block heater thermostat may or may not be installed on all years.
It is an option that the company I drive for has on all of it’s trucks. The majority of them Volvos with Volvo engines. I driver a 2015 Cascadia Freight Liner with a Detroit engine in it. I could be in a new truck, but 2015 was the last year that did not have any of the proximity warning safety crap. I got in this truck when it was brand new and have kept despite being offered a new truck every time they buy a batch of them. The way I see it, life is hard enough without having a truck bitching at you. I already have a drivers cam watching my every move when the truck is in operation. And a dash cam.
So I will retire driving this 2015. It just hit 650,000 miles. Well broke in for such trucks.
As a kid in the 1960s, a friend’s father drove a new car delivery transport (big) truck with a diesel engine. If it was going to be very cold at night, he’d leave the diesel engine idling all night so he could deliver the new cars the next morning.
When I’m on the road in subzero weather I also idle. If it is not the cold I rely on idle management. But in either case, I don’t set the trailer brakes because they are more likely to freeze up than those in the tractor and it is easier to get the tractor brakes to break free.
Electric car drivers to see massive charging law changes introduced today
The new regulations hope to ensure that any charge point should provide appropriate protection to the electricity system. They also aim to protect the relevant charge point and the personal data of the owner
Government bullshit. They want to use your battery (at your cost) to play games with “demand side management.” Typical socialistic management of shortages. God forbid government planners would simply plan to meet the needs and wants of its citizens. Better yet, let the free market meet real people’s desires. That way we don’t have to guess the woke meme of the day in our decisionmaking.
“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” RONALD REAGAN
Thanks for the link. I had already read the article and included it on my recommended articles list for today on my climate science and energy blog. PAUL Homewood is the best climate science writer in Europe. He’s a retired accountant. Climate science needs more retired accountants and fewer Ph.D. government bureaucrat climate scientists.
Even worse their beloved hero Elon Musk now favors free speech, which leftists hate, so now owning a Tesla is no longer the virtue signl it once was.
Indeed. Watching the business news, it seems an almost continuous flow of “look how awful Tesla is now that Musk runs twitter” stories. Leftists do not tolerate apostates.
Is that why the seem to attack EVERY organized religion except Mohammedism? That religion would K!LL any apostate if it were free to. Just like the Dems in the US wish to do.
The other day there was a story about a professor in some New England college who was teaching a course in religious art. He was fired when a couple of Muslim students complained that he showed a painting purportedly of Mohammed, which is something Muslims consider to be sacreligious.
Can you imagine what would happen to a professor who showed a picture that Christians or Jews found to be sacrilegious.
If you answered nothing, go to the head of the class.
the biggest obstacles to the leftist goal of Marxism are churches and Christian ethics, small businesses and blue collar trades people who can build things.
Can afford to pay twice the price of a comparable ICE car, and still have enough money to buy that comparable ICE car for all the things the EV can’t do.
It’s more expensive to buy and will only last as long as the battery does (10 to 15 years at most). It will only be cheaper to operate until the government figures out a way to apply road use taxes to it. However it is still a better option. Trust me.
PS, don’t charge it in your garage, but don’t charge it outside when temperatures drop below freezing.
In seattle they pushed for charging stations in all the downtown underground garages. They allow free parking while charging, losing $300+ per month per space. They take in around $30-$40 per slot/month in charging costs.
Great financial decision…🤣🤣🤣
Might be worth it to place a charging port in your ICE vehicle with a step down transformer and use it to keep your 12V battery charged. Then you too could use the Free parking spots
Forrest Gardener
December 30, 2022 6:32 pm
Electric cars? What can possibly go wrong?
My son in London was planning on buying a Tesla. He patiently explained that recharging was not going to be a problem. He’s a smart guy. He’ll figure it out for himself. Eventually.
To be fair the dash might be calculating the reduced range due to having to run the heater, defrost the windows, keep the battery warm, etc. But he mentioned he left the vehicle parked overnight, that can permanently damage the batteries.
Somehow they *NEVER* add in the price of a spare ICE car to the cost of an electric vehicle when calculating overall cost savings. If you have to have the ICE car for when you can’t charge the EV then the cost of the ICE car should be added to the total cost of the EV when computing any possible “savings”.
Just like with windmills and conventional power generators. If you add windmills to the grid, you have to add adequate backup for when the windmills don’t work. So the added backup should be part of the cost of building a windmill.
This truck driver likes it! The more EVs in the charging stations the fewer morons on the road.
That stylized T is the equivalent of a dunce cap and at the same time proof that P. T. Barnum knew what he was talking about. .
I like the fact Teslas are the most profiled, aerodynamic cars I see in Paris (except for the occasional Ferrari, but I see these once twice a year when I see Teslas twice a day), but these are only going to be used very slowly because of range issues…
The cost of high EV horsepower is the weight of the motors installed and the wiring and batteries to deliver the power to the motors.
If you look into EVs, I don’t, BUT got a new subscription to Car and Driver and received the recent EV edition. I learned a lot about EVs, especially as to the number of driven wheels and axels, etc. and the motors and weight.
So if you want an EV that will go from 0 to 60 MPH in under 4 (3) seconds, you will pay for that fun in increased weight and reduced range, battery KWH being equal.
And to answer your question, “performance” EVs have HIGH HP. But have 2 motors.
Lower performance EVs have one motor, possibly the same as one of the two in a high performance EV.
ALSO when you need to dump a lot of amps for the high performance EVs, you MUST also provide cooling for the batteries or they will overheat, thus even MORE weight.
One monthly edition of C&D, on EVs, which I didn’t have any interest in, until I actually started reading the articles. That reading just reinforced my intention of NEVER getting an EV, other than, maybe a golf cart.
Now IF I was a multimillionaire with money to burn, an EV would be fun to own just for the acceleration and 4 wheel drive traction.
Power is work/time or (force x distance)/time. It is a rate. It is also measured in watts. Force is also mass x acceleration.
One horsepower is about 750 watts.
A certain amount of force is required out of the drivetrain to maintain a speed against wind/friction/etc resistance. So if you cut horsepower the question is whether you’ll have enough horsepower to maintain the speed required, e.g. such as on a turnpike.
By the same token you must have enough force available to accelerate at the rate needed to be safe, such as entering a freeway using an on-ramp. Cut your horsepower and you may not have enough force available to safely merge.
Bottom line? Cut the EV horsepower in half and you may not have enough for the typical use profile of today’s driver. Can you cut the horsepower? Probably. How far? Who knows for sure.
The strength of the magnetic field is proportional to current through the motor. The magnetic field is what gives an electric motor it’s power.
The problem is that resistive losses in your wiring increases with the square of current.
Magnetic field generated by a coil is proportional to the current through the coil and is increased by the number of turns in the winding.
It’s not a direct one to one relationship because each additional layer in the winding is further from the center of the coil than was the previous layer, so it has less impact for the same amount of current.
Power is current times voltage. I * V
Voltage is current times resistance. I * R
Put the two together and you get I**2 * R
Making the wires larger in diameter does cut the power losses, due to resistance, but it also makes your wire coil larger, which decreases the density of the magnetic field being generated by the coil.
Adding more windings of the same diameter will increase the power of the motor, but the thing to remember here is that each additional layer of windings takes more linear length of wire than did the previous layer, also because that winding is further from the center of the coil, each additional layer has less impact than did the previous layers.
Because the total length of wire has increased, you need to increase the voltage in order to maintain the current, which also increases the total power needed to run your motor and the amount of heat being produced by the motor.
Back in the day, when you wanted a EE degree from Ga Tech, you had to take a quarter of motor and transformer design, and two quarters of antenna design.
“the most profiled, aerodynamic cars I see in Paris”
Now that made me laugh. I have lived and worked in Paris (like you do) and I’m sure you’d agree that cars could resemble shipping containers for all that aerodynamics enters into it! Indeed, most Parisians seemed to be happier driving their cars like Dodgems with the dings to prove it. But for exposing a shiny multi-thousand euro purchase to that carnage, surely they’d be ideal commuter vehicles as Paris isn’t that far from side to side.
However, a very large number live in flats with no off road parking. How do they charge them?
It was mandatory for some time to build parking lots when you made a new home building in Paris.
Now they want to suppress parkings so you are encourage to not build parking lots.
Thursday I did a run from Anderson, IN to Grand Rapids, MI. It took the easy way going up I-69 to I-94 W to US 131 N.
The evidence of the vehicular carnage from those driving in the pre-Christmas storm was everywhere. Every year it is the same, the first big snow or ice storm a lot of people have to relearn winter driving and a number of them do so the hard way. And that goes for big truck drivers to. For once I was not out in it but some of my compadres were.
Pickups pulling trailers using a standard ball hitch are the first to go and then after that the pickups towing using a 5th wheel.
Seeing slide offs is a key. Slow down!
The key in a big truck is managing the inertia that all that mass imparts. Those big tires manage deeper snow than the smaller tires on four wheelers but you have to know what the limits are.
A few years ago I did a night run up to the Romulus, MI terminal and back. My Granddaughter wanted to go. Everything was fine going up but coming back we hit heavy snow around Ft. Wayne.
My Granddaughter was in the sleeper and I told her to get up and get in the passenger seat and strap in. She learned a bit about winter driving.
The snow was 6″ to 8″ deep in the left lane on I-69. There were a couple of big trucks doing maybe 25 mph in the right lane with an old Cadillac behind them.
I determined to pass them and that driver in the Cadillac decided he would too when I pulled into the left lane.
Bad move! His small tires could not handle the ruts in the deeper snow in the left lane and those ruts being made by a big truck were wider than his wheel base. I backed off seeing trouble coming and told my Granddaughter to watch. Sure enough he lost it and slid off into the ditch going between the two slow trucks in the right lane.
Another night coming home from Kansas City on I-70 I ran through a good snow. I did not see a plow or salt shaker until I reached the western suburbs of St. Louis. The road had about 5-6″ of snow on it and feeling the rumble strips is what allowed me to stay on the road.
Conditions improved a bit from St. Louis to Indy.
It took me 14 hours to make it from KC to the terminal in Anderson, IN. Normally an 8 1/2 hour drive.
I could go on and on. Driving across the MA turnpike when it was closed. Going into Boston to a place east of the Bunker hill memorial the morning after the heaviest snow storm in the history of the city. Seeing over 100 vehicles, including police cars and ambulances abandoned in the median on I-80 in Iowa between the junction with I-74 and Des Moines one night. etc.
Anchorage, Alaska. Every morning after the first snow’s annual “dusting.” Commuting from the suburbs. A bunch of 4WD vehicles (especially Jeeps driven by mannish women) piled up and scattered in the highway median. Me laughing my ass off while tooling along passing the wrecks in a small automatic transmission Ford van with rear wheel drive.
Commuting from Denver’s Green Mountain area (through Golden) on Hwy 93 to Rocky Flats Nuclear Weapons Plant. One steep grade where cars are always scattered all over the roadway and shoulders during icing conditions. Same small automatic Ford RWD van w/o chains creeping very slowly dodging between the stranded vehicles going up the grade.
The trick? Watch and plan way ahead. Anticipate the idiots. Go slow. Never stop. Use momentum to your advantage. Yeah, I know; its too much for the average driver.
1997 Ford 150 5.7L 4WD PU (still have it for hauling stuff and dogs). Pulling a 24′ travel trailer on a ball hitch. Off-road in the Uinta Mountains at night during hellacious rain, hail, lightning and thunderstorms with deep mud and standing water everywhere. Went up a longish mountain goat trail (seemed like), managed to find a place to turn around and camp for the night. Scared the living shit out of myself going back down the next morning in clear daylight.
Right on, rah. Between P.T. Barnum and Charles Darwin the whole thing is explained.
antigtiff
December 30, 2022 6:59 pm
Take away the carbon credits…and the gubment tax breaks for buyers and Tesla may not be in business. I saw a picture of a Tesla in Russia with a portable gasoline generator attached to the rear.
The portable generator is not only a bad idea, it’s a really, really bad idea. Not only does it add weight and its related range reduction, it doesn’t have anywhere near the fuel capacity to add much range at all. It would take about the same amount of fuel in the generator tank to go the same distance as an ICE vehicle. A two-quart tank would get you about 10 miles. In addition, even if you had the fuel for it, the charging rate would be so slow that it would take hours and hours to charge. It probably couldn’t even supply enough power to keep the batteries and car warm enough to be useful.
an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.
That’ll never catch on.
As someone who lives 120 kms out of a major Australian city, and who would buy an EV if the numbers added up, it looks like it’ll be a while yet until I trade in my two ICEs for an electric car.
I have relatives who do the same thing Eric.
A home-chargeable Leaf BEV for the 7kms daily 2-way round trip for the schools drop-offs (~ 28kms a day usage), then a Toyota Prado 4WD ICE for the serious weekend and holidays travel.
The Leaf is an appropriate tool for the task it was chosen for.
They don’t expect or try to make it do more.
I AM against EVs on the principle that actual working wage earning tax payers are helping those who have EV to buy them, and then the roads used by the EVs are NOT maintained by those drivers since they do not pay fuel taxes paid by ICE drivers that go to maintaining the roads.
Mariner
December 30, 2022 7:38 pm
Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.
And also the higher insurance cost, higher interest payments on the larger loan and more frequent repairs for the Tesla 3 versus the Toyota Camry Hybrid
The Toyota Camry Hybrid is claimed to have 51mpg city and 53 mpg highway = 216,750 miles at 51 mpg add up to the $17,000 cost difference
51 mpg, not 39mpg
And I doubt if a Tesla or its batteries will last 216,750 miles at the average annual EV mileage per year in CA (about 5,000)
That would be 43.35 years to breakeven.
I wouldn’t be scammed into a hybrid though. IF “THEY” get their way and do manage to get FF (gasoline & diesel) banned you’ll have an essentially useless and worthless BEV with a 35 mile range.
“Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.”
The number of charging stations makes little difference when you are told NOT to charge because of limited power on the grid, (due to wind/solar failure) like Governor Newscum did in California recently.
France’s RTE said that public car charger operators must be prepared to cut power in case of low production margins (many of our nukes are still on maintenance because of corrosion issues in the water piping).
MarkW
December 30, 2022 9:26 pm
The cost of the chargers is not the only cost. You will also have to pay for all of the electrical infrastructure to get electricity to all those chargers.
If the average highway had to handle pure EV trafic, the regular gas pump area (placed every 40 or 50 km on the highway) should be turned on 4000 places of normal (slow) charge (like 7 kW in type 2 mode 3) or just a few hundred high speed DC charging points, or mix of these two.
That’s in term of number of plugs, not file of cars waiting.
Either way tens of megawatts of power would be transported to each of these areas, or alternatively smaller pause areas (these are placed every 10 or 20 km) would be equipped with fewer (tens? hundreds?) charging points.
If the villains aren’t cutting off tethered public charger cables for the copper content then they’re on the lookout for owner ones with untethered charging.
My WUWT Acct
December 30, 2022 9:52 pm
I recently watched a YouTube ‘production’ of a young UK man, taking a cross-country trip in his new Tesla to see his parents, and he rough calculated that he was losing about 25% of his total range to air-conditioning, cooling and heating the car.
I pointed-out that he was wearing a jumper, on the way out, and using air conditioning on the way back.
Then said, if you want to be cooler you can take off clothing and crack a window open, then you really don’t need much if any aircon.
Plus, if you’re chilled you can put on more clothing and close up windows, then you mostly don’t even need electrical heating.
Presto … ~25% of range loss restored.
These are the good people, who are ardently intending to save the world, via selfless-sacrifices, practical and sustainable common-sense efficiency gains, and an endless smorgasbord of super cool new technology thingies and doodads.
Opening windows when driving increases fuel, whatever type, consumption. You’re jiggered whatever.
Personally I don’t like driving wrapped up like Captain Scott, nor do I want to end up like him, frozen in a snow drift despite the warm gear
FYI, I’ve been a regular reader of WUWT for over 10 years, been away due serious illness. Returned and find we have to login to comment. And I remember the site host announcing this, about 3 years back, when he was moving the site to a new WP server. So, I’m not uninitiated or unaware of issues, and I stand by everything I wrote above.
It is correct, and it is balanced.
You and a small minority of others just misread this comment and jumped to unnecessary and unmerited conclusions and assumed I was saying something I was not saying.
But I’ve seen you do this for years, so am not surprised to see you still doing the kneejerk and pounce thing, and it’s always the same people who do it.
Obviously you have never lived anywhere where it gets hot or cold.
At highway speeds, it costs more fuel to open a window than it does to run the AC. Even the MythBusters were able to confirm that.
The more aerodynamic the car, the worse the problems with windows gets.
Yep, viewed that MythBusters show. Keep the windows closed with an ICE and the parasitic load of AC is less than opening the windows and causing increased drag.
Of course with the idyllic EV, the worry is all about the RANGE. So be too hot, or be too cold, AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!
Parasitic drag from a car window being cracked open by 1cm, at highway speeds, will do approximately nothing to the car’s total range, perhaps a faction of 1% change.
My reading in automobile magazines, some years ago, is that the wind drag and turbulence, much of that from the air entering front door windows and slamming into the rear window, costs as much gasoline as, sometimes more gasoline, as using an air conditioner, i.e. several miles per gallon.
… if you want to be cooler you can take off clothing and crack a window open, then you really don’t need much if any aircon.
“Crack” = Not fully opened.
A small opening, just enough to allow a stream of cooling air in at highway speed, but nowhere near enough to impact total range in measurable ways.
It’s amazing watching people above your comment misconstrue obviously correct statements, and leap to adamant or extreme conclusions for no reason at all.
Thank you for your more measured and able to be replied to remark.
That was the solution with Morris Minors in the 1960’s.
Problem is, if they ever could reach 70MPH on a motorway you got blown into the passengers seat when you ‘cracked’ open a window, and forget having a conversation with the passenger you wound up sitting on.
Air conditioned cars also have pollen filters etc. which are pointless with open windows. I suppose one could always swallow antihistamine to deal with the allergies, but it makes people drowsy, not a good idea unless one implicitly trusts the self driving mode of your Tesla.
I suppose Tesla could offer a model with no air con, heating and electric gizmo’s, but then why not go the whole hog and offer the Fred Flintstone model?
That’s the nice thing about progress, it makes life better. What you’re suggesting is that we make life worse to make it better. That’s regression.
It’s also worth noting the electric car was the first car on the road. The concept was abandoned in favour of the ICE and as battery technology has barely progressed since then the comparison has not changed, a heavy lump of precious metals charged by fossil fuels.
You make a weird argument only a confused green can produce.
Except the cost of the equipment that would be capable of swapping batteries in the time frame required, plus the cost of storing and charging that many batteries at the facility, plus the problems of dealing with batteries of various ages and conditions means that swapping batteries will never, ever happen.
Isn’t it fascinating how those who are concerned with saving the planet, are always finding ways that other people can sacrifice in order to achieve their goals.
When I was young and dumb I drove a car without air conditioning in the deep South of the US. It was miserable. Driving in city stop-and-go traffic was unbearably hot; heat coming up from the asphalt, exhaust from the car ahead. Night was scarcely cooler and the mosquitoes ate you alive. I took an interstate road trip and thought it would be fine, with a steady breeze blowing in from my open window. It rained. Hard. Torrents. The window had to be closed. Now it was roasting with 100% humidity. Worst trip ever.
Good luck to you and your plans. You are not going to get much enjoyment driving. Otoh, the youth of today seem to be happiest when miserable. If that is you, you are going to be in extreme ecstasy.
‘If only there was a way to recharge a vehicle quickly, so a small number of charge points can service an unusually large number of automobiles without a serious additional delay. Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.’
Ha ha: as if!
Rod Evans
December 31, 2022 2:22 am
My start up business selling a plug in recharging optional extra for EV owners looks more and more potentially profitable.
It comes in two formats. The handy fit in the boot/trunk option that requires a little fitting time i.e. a hole and pipe has to incorporated in the car boot/trunk to handle the excess heat and gas of the system. Alternatively a trailer option that comes with a tow hitch fitment and requires no additional holes in the car as the waste heat and gasses are distributed direct to atmosphere.
Honda have kindly provided the energy source for my recharging plug in anywhere business.
I am thinking, anyone who is happy to pay $50,000 plus for an EV will be more than happy to pay say $5,000 for my option and peace of mind be able to charge anywhere.
The best bit is, you can charge while driving your EV along too, so you never run out of battery That recharge while driving along option requires an additional storage for the ‘liquid’ recharging fluid the system uses.
I’m thinking a crowd funding request would be appropriate to get it all started….
If BEV owners were really concerned about the lack of charging stations, they could club together, raise a bit of cash and get them installed themselves?
Oh, I suppose it is easier to ask the state for free charger installations instead!
If anyone in the industry thought that these electric semi’s were going to actually save money, Coke would be raising bloody hell about this subsidy to one of its competitors.
I’m sure there must be some poor soul out there who anxiously waited 3+ hours to charge his Tesla so he could make it to the airport for a grand Christmas vacation — flying Southwest!
There was a similar story in the Telegraph. However the problem is that all political parties in the UK support banning of ICE cars from 2030.
EVs do not meet the purposes ICE cars are used for now, but that does not mean it will not happen.
What is more likely, given the political class consensus, is that lifestyles will have to change to accommodate EVs. And that will be really massive. You have to figure:
— More expensive
— Shorter range
— Longer refuel times
And of course, the deteriorating batteries over time. The changes will be very considerable and will impact the less well off much more, because they currently rely on the used market which has plenty of cheap serviceable vehicles. But will not after 2030.
If it remains legal to sell ICE cars we can expect a hugely older parc of them as people cannot or will not exchange them for EVs. If the government of the day is serious about moving to EVs it will have to do something to prevent this.
And when ICEs are no longer in large numbers, how many gas stations will remain with no cars to refuel? Used cars will no longer be marketable if fuel can’t be found to run them or fuel so expensive that no one can afford to fuel them.
There are many places in third world countries with few gas stations but many cars. Adding a twenty gallon tank to the car’s fifteen gallon tank means the loss of trunk space, but that is acceptable. You need only refuel once every thousand miles or so. And gasoline engines can be modified to run on other fuels.
But there are bigger problems if you ban the use of gasoline. Do you also plan to ban jet fuel, asphalt, all types of plastics, a great number of medicines (even aspirin) and hundreds of other products, as well? They are all synthesized from oil. If you continue to produce oil and make those products you will get a huge amount waste product called…gasoline. What do you plan to do with it? Pump it underground and pollute ground water? Dump it in oceans and kill fish? Burn it? smh.
Just like the subdivision of Oxford into a number of isolated enclaves with checkpoint at the intersections — ‘it will happen” regardless of the acceptance of the inhabitants.
I just bought a 1995 Dodge Ram, 2500 Laramie SLT with the 8 liter V-10 engine and a 30 gallon tank for $3,000. Hardley a spot of rust on it above or below. 138,000 mi. It is an awesome hoss. Has the electric brake hookup for a trailer or 5th wheel. Diamond plate protectors for the top edges of the bed sides, full length running boards, and flip out “T” tie down hooks for securing loads in the bed.
I have put new Micheline snow tires on it and had it aligned. Changed the oil and gave it lube job. Put new wiper blades on it. Everything looks great mechanically except it will need a brake job in a year or less.
It has a cracked dash, which is common for those trucks but a new one only costs about $250.00 and I can install it myself. I will place rubber buffers under the screw connections because that is what Dodge didn’t do and is why it is so common for the dash to be cracked in those trucks. I will also get the foldout reflectors panels since I park it outside.
I have other plans for it, but the next thing will be a remote start which is darn nice for a vehicle parked outside in the winter. When I get done with it, it will look nearly show room new. I have no doubt it will be the last pickup truck I need.
Oh, BTW. The frame members on that 1995 are made of steel at least 1/16″ thicker than what you will find in the new pickups that are being sold now.
Jamaica NYC
December 31, 2022 11:30 am
It’s kinda perplexing how people here in South Jamaica Queens would charge their cars at home since a lot of them don’t have off street parking. But, then, I remember that they won’t have cars to charge so that’s wonderful!
The huge queues have angered Tesla owners, with many blasting Australia’s lack of electric vehicle infrastructure.
They shouldhavethough about that before they purchased. Why should everyday folks have to further subsidise their virtue signalling lifestyles?
astonerii
December 31, 2022 4:56 pm
Anyone ever calculate out how many charging stations would be required if 100% of the vehicles and 100% of the miles we currently drive were done in electric vehicles using a limited 16 hour day for charging and having at most a 15 minute wait to charge?
3.2 trillion miles at about 0.346 kw per mile.
1.1 trillion kwh energy.
Charge rates seem limited to between 50kw to 350kw with a very quick charge to 80% and a much slower charge rate up to 100% taking generally as long for the last 20% as the 20% to 80% time.
If we just stick to the 50KW, that equals a total charging time of 22.2 billion hours of charging per year. That drops down to, with my 16 hour a day charging period, to 3.8 million hours of charging per day.
So, I guess regardless of charging time, a minimum of 3.8 million charging stations are required to support electric vehicles.
No hurry! Considering that the UK has about 41 million licensed motor vehicles currently, the 420 thousand BEVs represent 1% of the vehicle fleet. How long do you suppose it will take to replace the remaining 99%?
yarpos
December 31, 2022 9:15 pm
The UK grid teeters on the edge of basic supply failure and the rich and oblivious whine about wanting more superchargers. Sure, just sprinkle fairy dust along the motorway. There, fixed!
BEVs do not work outside being a purely local bit of virtue signaling.
If you can charge them overnight at home and your daily round trip commute is within the car’s range it’s better than an ICE car. Just don’t take it beyond that range or possibly suffer the consequences. EVs are still a niche car.
“If you can charge them overnight at home…EVs are still a niche car.“
______________________________________
B I N G O ! Ideal for a commuter & run around town car. They are not for the Great American Road trip to Yellow Stone. Yes, EVs have their place.
Niche Car … A K A … Gilded Golf Cart
Well described as to exactly what they are. And nothing more. When I see a Tesla, I think there is an idiot behind that steering wheel. And avoid being anywhere near it.
Total BS
Tesla EV model 3 compared with Toyota Corolla ICE
Much higher price for Tesla
Much lower reliability for Tesla
Higher insurance cost for Tesla
Very inconvenient EV “refueling”
Inaccurate, unpredictable EV distance to empty gauge
Lower EV range in cold weather
Very slow EV charging with 115 volts at home
Slow EV charging with 240 volts at home
Batteries deterieorate from fast charging on the road
Fast charging only possible to 80% of battery capacity
EVs are a total loser.
Better than an ICE car is BS
Here in SE Michigan an EV charged with DTE Energy electricity is a 58% coal car.
Even worse their beloved hero Elon Musk now favors free speech, which leftists hate, so now owning a Tesla is no longer the virtue signl it once was.
Better to buy a much cheaper ICE and put an emblem on the back that says “ELECTRIC”, in big letters, and “RADIO”, in tiny letters. Tell any nosy neighbors that what looks like an exhaust pipe is really a Cabin Air Circulation Exhaust Vent, nit an old fashioned exhaust pipe. Then you can virtue signal and have a good, convenient, reasonably priced car too.
A neighbor of mine has a ~10-year old Toyota Yaris that he has dangled a short length of standard electric power cord with 3-point plug end from under under the front bumper.
I often see this car at local supermarkets parked in the electric vehicles charging station spaces. Not connected to anything of course.
I don’t think this practice has ever been challenged.
In more northern climes, cars often come equipped with electric oil heaters, so that the oil doesn’t too cold to flow when the car is parked for long periods.
Goose Bay AFB, Labrador. At the parking areas are high lines on telephone pools with lines hanging down to the front of each parking space for plugging in engine block heaters.
At the yard where I park my truck there are outlets for plugging in at each of the 267 numbered spaces.
As I write this my truck is plugged in and when I parked it Thursday afternoon I turned off the truck master power switch to conserve the batteries. During this time of year freight often gets slow and so I did not know how long my truck would be parked. The manufacture recommends the master switch be turned off if the truck is to sit for 3 days or more.
The garage has the master power switch for all those outlets hooked in with a thermostat and when it gets warmer as it is now the electricity to the outlets is switched off.
That set up however is not adequate when it gets down around -15 because despite the use of winter fuel treatment the fuel will gel in the fuel line and if there was any moisture on the drum brakes the shoes will freeze to the drums.
Then the mechanics come around with a salamander to thaw things out. Beating on the drums with a 3 lb hammer will speed the release of the brakes.
Before I parked it Thursday I fueled, checked all fluid levels, and added a gallon of windshield washer fluid. I pulled the four different cable lanyards which actuate the drain valves on the air tanks to purge them of water. I do all of that every time I am going to park it during the winter months. Washed all windows, mirrors and lights to get the white film off them, and greased the fifth wheel.
How cold does it have to be to use an engine block heater on a diesel?
I never asked and can’t remember what it said in the manual but the garage seems to have them set to get power at about 30 F. I don’t generally plug in unless it there is a possibility for the temp to drop below 20 F.
However those are not the true limits. I have started big trucks without being plugged in when it has been below zero plenty of times in the past.
Part of the key is fuel treatment.
In diesel buses that are meant to operate in really cold temps you will find a button that activates either start.
ether not either.
Thanks, rah. I was asking for a friend who just got himself a Ford F550 equipped with a diesel engine.
Diesel starts to gel around 10-15F, so I would say under 20 unless you use an anti-gel. That can take you somewhat below 0F.
In the northern states the larger truck stop chains now put in the fuel treatment during the winter and at the fuel island at our terminal the same. I keep a couple of pints in the tool box just in case.
The main fuel treatment is adding kerosene. Refineries supplying cold climates produce diesel with a higher kerosene content in winter months, aiming at a CFPP (cold filter plugging point) spec well below freezing. The trade off is that kerosene lowers cetane, so that restricts the use of other lower cetane blending components (primarily cycle oils from catalytic cracking processes), and affects crude choices.
Also, arctic diesel (which may even contain elements of gasoline fractions to help with startability) doesn’t play nice with common rail diesel injector engines.
This could be explained with a little more chemistry. Kerosene is a blend of hydrocarbons with the general formula CxH(2x+2). It is C9H20 up to C20H42. Diesel is C16H34 up to C22H46. So there is a big overlap. The energy per kg is about the same, the energy per litre is light different. Nothing to write home about. Paraffin wax for making candles is just a much longer chain that is solid at room temperature, like C60H122.
Winter diesel has more of the lighter fractions (shorter chain molecules) and in summer the blend is on the heavier end.
Kerosene is also modified in this manner. Producers will run a little heavier to limit evaporation in summer.
There are other additives of course but the main content is long stripes of carbon flame by pairs of hydrogen atoms like a centipede.
rah, do they do that with off-road too? Most tractor owners I know put anti-gel in as winter prep.
Pretty sure they don’t do that here in NC.
The truck stops of the big chains put in the treatment the ones in the south don’t. That is why I carry a couple pints in my tool box.
For example, it’s about 1,440 miles from Anderson, IN to Laredo, TX. One can run into a whole lot of different weather between locations that far apart.
Thanks, Tony.
I just did a search and I found a comment on a blog that said the GM Duramax diesel block heater has a thermostat that turns the heater on at 0 F, and GM does not recommend using the block heater under 0 F.
Apparently the block heater thermostat may or may not be installed on all years.
It is an option that the company I drive for has on all of it’s trucks. The majority of them Volvos with Volvo engines. I driver a 2015 Cascadia Freight Liner with a Detroit engine in it. I could be in a new truck, but 2015 was the last year that did not have any of the proximity warning safety crap. I got in this truck when it was brand new and have kept despite being offered a new truck every time they buy a batch of them. The way I see it, life is hard enough without having a truck bitching at you. I already have a drivers cam watching my every move when the truck is in operation. And a dash cam.
So I will retire driving this 2015. It just hit 650,000 miles. Well broke in for such trucks.
As a kid in the 1960s, a friend’s father drove a new car delivery transport (big) truck with a diesel engine. If it was going to be very cold at night, he’d leave the diesel engine idling all night so he could deliver the new cars the next morning.
When I’m on the road in subzero weather I also idle. If it is not the cold I rely on idle management. But in either case, I don’t set the trailer brakes because they are more likely to freeze up than those in the tractor and it is easier to get the tractor brakes to break free.
You did all of that yourself, without the government’s help.
Ridiculous.
Then the government helps.
Electric car drivers to see massive charging law changes introduced today
The new regulations hope to ensure that any charge point should provide appropriate protection to the electricity system. They also aim to protect the relevant charge point and the personal data of the owner
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/12/30/new-laws-for-ev-home-chargers/
Government bullshit. They want to use your battery (at your cost) to play games with “demand side management.” Typical socialistic management of shortages. God forbid government planners would simply plan to meet the needs and wants of its citizens. Better yet, let the free market meet real people’s desires. That way we don’t have to guess the woke meme of the day in our decisionmaking.
“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” RONALD REAGAN
Thanks for the link. I had already read the article and included it on my recommended articles list for today on my climate science and energy blog. PAUL Homewood is the best climate science writer in Europe. He’s a retired accountant. Climate science needs more retired accountants and fewer Ph.D. government bureaucrat climate scientists.
Honest global warming chart Blog: Links to the best climate science and energy articles that I read today, December 31, 2022 (elonionbloggle.blogspot.com)
The most honest EV reviews I’ve found are at this website. Reality — no EV cheerleading there
New Car Reviews Archives – EPautos – Libertarian Car Talk (ericpetersautos.com)
Indeed. Watching the business news, it seems an almost continuous flow of “look how awful Tesla is now that Musk runs twitter” stories. Leftists do not tolerate apostates.
Is that why the seem to attack EVERY organized religion except Mohammedism? That religion would K!LL any apostate if it were free to. Just like the Dems in the US wish to do.
The other day there was a story about a professor in some New England college who was teaching a course in religious art. He was fired when a couple of Muslim students complained that he showed a painting purportedly of Mohammed, which is something Muslims consider to be sacreligious.
Can you imagine what would happen to a professor who showed a picture that Christians or Jews found to be sacrilegious.
If you answered nothing, go to the head of the class.
the biggest obstacles to the leftist goal of Marxism are churches and Christian ethics, small businesses and blue collar trades people who can build things.
Sure, they might be fine if you can afford to pay twice the price of a comparable ICE car and be satisfied that you will never financially break even.
Can afford to pay twice the price of a comparable ICE car, and still have enough money to buy that comparable ICE car for all the things the EV can’t do.
It’s more expensive to buy and will only last as long as the battery does (10 to 15 years at most). It will only be cheaper to operate until the government figures out a way to apply road use taxes to it. However it is still a better option. Trust me.
PS, don’t charge it in your garage, but don’t charge it outside when temperatures drop below freezing.
Except being more expensive and requiring a new battery every 10 years
Caution: ultra-rapid charging devices …
can be detrimental to your EV’s battery.
The purpose of an BEV is to tell people you have a BEV.
However I do not believe the story. Never saw a BEV at a charging station on US 93 in Nevada.
There used to be three charging points at the Belconnen Markets, but they were torn down due to lack of use.
In seattle they pushed for charging stations in all the downtown underground garages. They allow free parking while charging, losing $300+ per month per space. They take in around $30-$40 per slot/month in charging costs.
Great financial decision…🤣🤣🤣
I’d be tempted to plug in, even if I didn’t need to charge the battery, just to avoid the parking charges.
Might be worth it to place a charging port in your ICE vehicle with a step down transformer and use it to keep your 12V battery charged. Then you too could use the Free parking spots
Electric cars? What can possibly go wrong?
My son in London was planning on buying a Tesla. He patiently explained that recharging was not going to be a problem. He’s a smart guy. He’ll figure it out for himself. Eventually.
They don’t charge so well when cold.
To be fair the dash might be calculating the reduced range due to having to run the heater, defrost the windows, keep the battery warm, etc. But he mentioned he left the vehicle parked overnight, that can permanently damage the batteries.
There are quite a few reports of this. A sad one follows.
https://www.tiktok.com/@domnatishow/video/7180839253562199338
Somehow they *NEVER* add in the price of a spare ICE car to the cost of an electric vehicle when calculating overall cost savings. If you have to have the ICE car for when you can’t charge the EV then the cost of the ICE car should be added to the total cost of the EV when computing any possible “savings”.
Just like they never add in the cost of batteries and back up power sources when calculating how much wind and solar cost.
Just like with windmills and conventional power generators. If you add windmills to the grid, you have to add adequate backup for when the windmills don’t work. So the added backup should be part of the cost of building a windmill.
This truck driver likes it! The more EVs in the charging stations the fewer morons on the road.
That stylized T is the equivalent of a dunce cap and at the same time proof that P. T. Barnum knew what he was talking about. .
Yes but the EV drivers who do make it onto the road are driving slowly because of range anxiety ;-).
I like the fact Teslas are the most profiled, aerodynamic cars I see in Paris (except for the occasional Ferrari, but I see these once twice a year when I see Teslas twice a day), but these are only going to be used very slowly because of range issues…
“but these are only going to be used very slowly because of range issues…”
EV’s have plenty of horsepower. Maybe more than they need.
If an EV’s horsepower rating were cut in half, would that reduce the amount of electricity the EV uses on a trip and extend its range?
The cost of high EV horsepower is the weight of the motors installed and the wiring and batteries to deliver the power to the motors.
If you look into EVs, I don’t, BUT got a new subscription to Car and Driver and received the recent EV edition. I learned a lot about EVs, especially as to the number of driven wheels and axels, etc. and the motors and weight.
So if you want an EV that will go from 0 to 60 MPH in under 4 (3) seconds, you will pay for that fun in increased weight and reduced range, battery KWH being equal.
And to answer your question, “performance” EVs have HIGH HP. But have 2 motors.
Lower performance EVs have one motor, possibly the same as one of the two in a high performance EV.
ALSO when you need to dump a lot of amps for the high performance EVs, you MUST also provide cooling for the batteries or they will overheat, thus even MORE weight.
One monthly edition of C&D, on EVs, which I didn’t have any interest in, until I actually started reading the articles. That reading just reinforced my intention of NEVER getting an EV, other than, maybe a golf cart.
Now IF I was a multimillionaire with money to burn, an EV would be fun to own just for the acceleration and 4 wheel drive traction.
Power is work/time or (force x distance)/time. It is a rate. It is also measured in watts. Force is also mass x acceleration.
One horsepower is about 750 watts.
A certain amount of force is required out of the drivetrain to maintain a speed against wind/friction/etc resistance. So if you cut horsepower the question is whether you’ll have enough horsepower to maintain the speed required, e.g. such as on a turnpike.
By the same token you must have enough force available to accelerate at the rate needed to be safe, such as entering a freeway using an on-ramp. Cut your horsepower and you may not have enough force available to safely merge.
Bottom line? Cut the EV horsepower in half and you may not have enough for the typical use profile of today’s driver. Can you cut the horsepower? Probably. How far? Who knows for sure.
The strength of the magnetic field is proportional to current through the motor. The magnetic field is what gives an electric motor it’s power.
The problem is that resistive losses in your wiring increases with the square of current.
Magnetic field generated by a coil is proportional to the current through the coil and is increased by the number of turns in the winding.
It’s not a direct one to one relationship because each additional layer in the winding is further from the center of the coil than was the previous layer, so it has less impact for the same amount of current.
Power is current times voltage. I * V
Voltage is current times resistance. I * R
Put the two together and you get I**2 * R
Making the wires larger in diameter does cut the power losses, due to resistance, but it also makes your wire coil larger, which decreases the density of the magnetic field being generated by the coil.
Adding more windings of the same diameter will increase the power of the motor, but the thing to remember here is that each additional layer of windings takes more linear length of wire than did the previous layer, also because that winding is further from the center of the coil, each additional layer has less impact than did the previous layers.
Because the total length of wire has increased, you need to increase the voltage in order to maintain the current, which also increases the total power needed to run your motor and the amount of heat being produced by the motor.
Back in the day, when you wanted a EE degree from Ga Tech, you had to take a quarter of motor and transformer design, and two quarters of antenna design.
“the most profiled, aerodynamic cars I see in Paris”
Now that made me laugh. I have lived and worked in Paris (like you do) and I’m sure you’d agree that cars could resemble shipping containers for all that aerodynamics enters into it! Indeed, most Parisians seemed to be happier driving their cars like Dodgems with the dings to prove it. But for exposing a shiny multi-thousand euro purchase to that carnage, surely they’d be ideal commuter vehicles as Paris isn’t that far from side to side.
However, a very large number live in flats with no off road parking. How do they charge them?
It was mandatory for some time to build parking lots when you made a new home building in Paris.
Now they want to suppress parkings so you are encourage to not build parking lots.
Slow driving on highways causes lots of wrecks too Eric.
And so a few less morons to deal with.
Thursday I did a run from Anderson, IN to Grand Rapids, MI. It took the easy way going up I-69 to I-94 W to US 131 N.
The evidence of the vehicular carnage from those driving in the pre-Christmas storm was everywhere. Every year it is the same, the first big snow or ice storm a lot of people have to relearn winter driving and a number of them do so the hard way. And that goes for big truck drivers to. For once I was not out in it but some of my compadres were.
I read somewhere that the highest insurance claims days for vehicle damages across Canada are the first snowfall days in each area.
Many drivers must not register the fact that driving conditions have suddenly and radically changed.
(I would have thought that Canadian drivers would well attuned to encountering sudden onsets of winter driving conditions. Mexicans, not so much.)
Pickups pulling trailers using a standard ball hitch are the first to go and then after that the pickups towing using a 5th wheel.
Seeing slide offs is a key. Slow down!
The key in a big truck is managing the inertia that all that mass imparts. Those big tires manage deeper snow than the smaller tires on four wheelers but you have to know what the limits are.
A few years ago I did a night run up to the Romulus, MI terminal and back. My Granddaughter wanted to go. Everything was fine going up but coming back we hit heavy snow around Ft. Wayne.
My Granddaughter was in the sleeper and I told her to get up and get in the passenger seat and strap in. She learned a bit about winter driving.
The snow was 6″ to 8″ deep in the left lane on I-69. There were a couple of big trucks doing maybe 25 mph in the right lane with an old Cadillac behind them.
I determined to pass them and that driver in the Cadillac decided he would too when I pulled into the left lane.
Bad move! His small tires could not handle the ruts in the deeper snow in the left lane and those ruts being made by a big truck were wider than his wheel base. I backed off seeing trouble coming and told my Granddaughter to watch. Sure enough he lost it and slid off into the ditch going between the two slow trucks in the right lane.
Another night coming home from Kansas City on I-70 I ran through a good snow. I did not see a plow or salt shaker until I reached the western suburbs of St. Louis. The road had about 5-6″ of snow on it and feeling the rumble strips is what allowed me to stay on the road.
Conditions improved a bit from St. Louis to Indy.
It took me 14 hours to make it from KC to the terminal in Anderson, IN. Normally an 8 1/2 hour drive.
I could go on and on. Driving across the MA turnpike when it was closed. Going into Boston to a place east of the Bunker hill memorial the morning after the heaviest snow storm in the history of the city. Seeing over 100 vehicles, including police cars and ambulances abandoned in the median on I-80 in Iowa between the junction with I-74 and Des Moines one night. etc.
And how many of those drivers had not taken the time to put on their winter tires? After the first big storm, the winter tires are on.
Winter tires are not the panacea for keeping drivers out of trouble in snowy conditions.
I watched an open Q&A session in a Utah town for people seeking advice from tire experts about what they should be driving on.
The foremost tire expert on the panel (the largest tire dealership in the area) was asked what sort / brand of winter tire he used on his own vehicle.
He replied that he doesn’t use winter tires himself at all.
He said that instead –
“I always drive like I’m driving on snow”
Anchorage, Alaska. Every morning after the first snow’s annual “dusting.” Commuting from the suburbs. A bunch of 4WD vehicles (especially Jeeps driven by mannish women) piled up and scattered in the highway median. Me laughing my ass off while tooling along passing the wrecks in a small automatic transmission Ford van with rear wheel drive.
Commuting from Denver’s Green Mountain area (through Golden) on Hwy 93 to Rocky Flats Nuclear Weapons Plant. One steep grade where cars are always scattered all over the roadway and shoulders during icing conditions. Same small automatic Ford RWD van w/o chains creeping very slowly dodging between the stranded vehicles going up the grade.
The trick? Watch and plan way ahead. Anticipate the idiots. Go slow. Never stop. Use momentum to your advantage. Yeah, I know; its too much for the average driver.
1997 Ford 150 5.7L 4WD PU (still have it for hauling stuff and dogs). Pulling a 24′ travel trailer on a ball hitch. Off-road in the Uinta Mountains at night during hellacious rain, hail, lightning and thunderstorms with deep mud and standing water everywhere. Went up a longish mountain goat trail (seemed like), managed to find a place to turn around and camp for the night. Scared the living shit out of myself going back down the next morning in clear daylight.
Right on, rah. Between P.T. Barnum and Charles Darwin the whole thing is explained.
Take away the carbon credits…and the gubment tax breaks for buyers and Tesla may not be in business. I saw a picture of a Tesla in Russia with a portable gasoline generator attached to the rear.
That’s a spare tank
The portable generator is not only a bad idea, it’s a really, really bad idea. Not only does it add weight and its related range reduction, it doesn’t have anywhere near the fuel capacity to add much range at all. It would take about the same amount of fuel in the generator tank to go the same distance as an ICE vehicle. A two-quart tank would get you about 10 miles. In addition, even if you had the fuel for it, the charging rate would be so slow that it would take hours and hours to charge. It probably couldn’t even supply enough power to keep the batteries and car warm enough to be useful.
This could all be solved if we weren’t so selfish with our battery needs, at least according to this knucklehead: https://www.wired.com/story/dear-electric-vehicle-owners-you-dont-need-that-giant-battery/amp
Downvoters apparently don’t understand context. rhs was only linking to a “knucklehead’s” article, not making the claim.
That’ll never catch on.
As someone who lives 120 kms out of a major Australian city, and who would buy an EV if the numbers added up, it looks like it’ll be a while yet until I trade in my two ICEs for an electric car.
I’m not against the idea of EVs in principle. I have a friend who uses an EV for the school run. But he has a diesel for long trips.
I have relatives who do the same thing Eric.
A home-chargeable Leaf BEV for the 7kms daily 2-way round trip for the schools drop-offs (~ 28kms a day usage), then a Toyota Prado 4WD ICE for the serious weekend and holidays travel.
The Leaf is an appropriate tool for the task it was chosen for.
They don’t expect or try to make it do more.
Agreed but the missus drives the petrol runabout while my diesel fourby towhorse identifies as an EV and 12V is just fine for we eco types rather than the knuckleheads wanting 400V and now 800V charging for their whopping batteries-
https://www.wired.com/story/dear-electric-vehicle-owners-you-dont-need-that-giant-battery/amp
Eric, I agree, as long as you’re talking about golf carts.
I AM against EVs on the principle that actual working wage earning tax payers are helping those who have EV to buy them, and then the roads used by the EVs are NOT maintained by those drivers since they do not pay fuel taxes paid by ICE drivers that go to maintaining the roads.
Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.
Is that called petrol?
Next, you’ll try to get us to believe it produces plant food as a byproduct.
Tesla Model 3 MSRP + $46,990
compact car with low reliability, per Consumer Reports
Toyota Camry LE Hybrid MSRP = $29,515
Mid-sized car with high reliability, per CR
The Camry gets 39 mpg hwy and costs $17,000 less that the T3.
At $4.00 per gallon and 39 mpg the $17,000 difference will take your Camry 165,750 miles
And that assumes FREE EV charging and no government excise taxes on EVs.
And also the higher insurance cost, higher interest payments on the larger loan and more frequent repairs for the Tesla 3 versus the Toyota Camry Hybrid
The Toyota Camry Hybrid is claimed to have 51mpg city and 53 mpg highway = 216,750 miles at 51 mpg add up to the $17,000 cost difference
51 mpg, not 39mpg
And I doubt if a Tesla or its batteries will last 216,750 miles at the average annual EV mileage per year in CA (about 5,000)
That would be 43.35 years to breakeven.
I wouldn’t be scammed into a hybrid though. IF “THEY” get their way and do manage to get FF (gasoline & diesel) banned you’ll have an essentially useless and worthless BEV with a 35 mile range.
What are the EV users in Australia going to do during the upcoming weeklong blackouts? Do the charging stations have diesel generator backup?🤯🤯
Backup gasoline generator – the entire street hums when there’s a blackout.
A whole house on demand running off NG is in my future. It won’t be charging and EV.
“Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.”
Hahaha ! :))) …. undeniable schadenfreude :))
Hey taxpayers, subsidize my new car.
Hey taxpayers, I don’t want to wait to charge my car. Subsidize more charging stations.
Hey, look at me, I’m saving the planet.
Once the UK and EU figure out how to charge equivalent excise tax on EVs, that will further disadvantage EVs.
They know how to do it but won’t until there is either a critical mass of them on the road or 2035 rolls in and nothing but a BEV can be bought new.
Surcharge EVs $2400/yr payable at car registration time, with that money funding the building and maintaining of EV charging stations.
Isn’t that the most logical and fair solution?
The number of charging stations makes little difference when you are told NOT to charge because of limited power on the grid, (due to wind/solar failure) like Governor Newscum did in California recently.
France’s RTE said that public car charger operators must be prepared to cut power in case of low production margins (many of our nukes are still on maintenance because of corrosion issues in the water piping).
The cost of the chargers is not the only cost. You will also have to pay for all of the electrical infrastructure to get electricity to all those chargers.
If the average highway had to handle pure EV trafic, the regular gas pump area (placed every 40 or 50 km on the highway) should be turned on 4000 places of normal (slow) charge (like 7 kW in type 2 mode 3) or just a few hundred high speed DC charging points, or mix of these two.
That’s in term of number of plugs, not file of cars waiting.
Either way tens of megawatts of power would be transported to each of these areas, or alternatively smaller pause areas (these are placed every 10 or 20 km) would be equipped with fewer (tens? hundreds?) charging points.
Apart from the charger numbers and time to charge problems the cables themselves are attractive to thieves-
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1584299/Electric-car-charger-theft-EV-owners-warning
and here’s a type2 to type2 portable going by byes-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr4iKWU2XE8
If the villains aren’t cutting off tethered public charger cables for the copper content then they’re on the lookout for owner ones with untethered charging.
I recently watched a YouTube ‘production’ of a young UK man, taking a cross-country trip in his new Tesla to see his parents, and he rough calculated that he was losing about 25% of his total range to air-conditioning, cooling and heating the car.
I pointed-out that he was wearing a jumper, on the way out, and using air conditioning on the way back.
Then said, if you want to be cooler you can take off clothing and crack a window open, then you really don’t need much if any aircon.
Plus, if you’re chilled you can put on more clothing and close up windows, then you mostly don’t even need electrical heating.
Presto … ~25% of range loss restored.
These are the good people, who are ardently intending to save the world, via selfless-sacrifices, practical and sustainable common-sense efficiency gains, and an endless smorgasbord of super cool new technology thingies and doodads.
It’s very exciting and inspiring.
Opening windows when driving increases fuel, whatever type, consumption. You’re jiggered whatever.
Personally I don’t like driving wrapped up like Captain Scott, nor do I want to end up like him, frozen in a snow drift despite the warm gear
Hardly at all.
Enough.
FYI, I’ve been a regular reader of WUWT for over 10 years, been away due serious illness. Returned and find we have to login to comment. And I remember the site host announcing this, about 3 years back, when he was moving the site to a new WP server. So, I’m not uninitiated or unaware of issues, and I stand by everything I wrote above.
It is correct, and it is balanced.
You and a small minority of others just misread this comment and jumped to unnecessary and unmerited conclusions and assumed I was saying something I was not saying.
But I’ve seen you do this for years, so am not surprised to see you still doing the kneejerk and pounce thing, and it’s always the same people who do it.
Learn to communicate better.
Obviously you have never lived anywhere where it gets hot or cold.
At highway speeds, it costs more fuel to open a window than it does to run the AC. Even the MythBusters were able to confirm that.
The more aerodynamic the car, the worse the problems with windows gets.
Yep, viewed that MythBusters show. Keep the windows closed with an ICE and the parasitic load of AC is less than opening the windows and causing increased drag.
Of course with the idyllic EV, the worry is all about the RANGE. So be too hot, or be too cold, AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!
And you DESERVE it!
This is just an absurd excuse and BS.
Parasitic drag from a car window being cracked open by 1cm, at highway speeds, will do approximately nothing to the car’s total range, perhaps a faction of 1% change.
I’m taking about a 25% difference in range here!
25%!
Laughable.
My reading in automobile magazines, some years ago, is that the wind drag and turbulence, much of that from the air entering front door windows and slamming into the rear window, costs as much gasoline as, sometimes more gasoline, as using an air conditioner, i.e. several miles per gallon.
This is what I said:
“Crack” = Not fully opened.
A small opening, just enough to allow a stream of cooling air in at highway speed, but nowhere near enough to impact total range in measurable ways.
It’s amazing watching people above your comment misconstrue obviously correct statements, and leap to adamant or extreme conclusions for no reason at all.
Thank you for your more measured and able to be replied to remark.
Sheep get that same excited look on their faces when being rounded up.
They’re fairly poker faced when it comes to inspiration though.
That was the solution with Morris Minors in the 1960’s.
Problem is, if they ever could reach 70MPH on a motorway you got blown into the passengers seat when you ‘cracked’ open a window, and forget having a conversation with the passenger you wound up sitting on.
Air conditioned cars also have pollen filters etc. which are pointless with open windows. I suppose one could always swallow antihistamine to deal with the allergies, but it makes people drowsy, not a good idea unless one implicitly trusts the self driving mode of your Tesla.
I suppose Tesla could offer a model with no air con, heating and electric gizmo’s, but then why not go the whole hog and offer the Fred Flintstone model?
That’s the nice thing about progress, it makes life better. What you’re suggesting is that we make life worse to make it better. That’s regression.
It’s also worth noting the electric car was the first car on the road. The concept was abandoned in favour of the ICE and as battery technology has barely progressed since then the comparison has not changed, a heavy lump of precious metals charged by fossil fuels.
You make a weird argument only a confused green can produce.
Cars and fire trucks. But then the batteries would be swapped not recharged online.
Except the cost of the equipment that would be capable of swapping batteries in the time frame required, plus the cost of storing and charging that many batteries at the facility, plus the problems of dealing with batteries of various ages and conditions means that swapping batteries will never, ever happen.
You left out the insurance costs for an industrial location recharging batteries in a storage building.
These remarks are just time wasting and ridiculous.
“CRACK” … as in ~1 centimetre.
Isn’t it fascinating how those who are concerned with saving the planet, are always finding ways that other people can sacrifice in order to achieve their goals.
And you, my goodness … you assumed all that narrative crap, from what I wrote?
lol
Absurd.
The consensus thinks otherwise.
When I was young and dumb I drove a car without air conditioning in the deep South of the US. It was miserable. Driving in city stop-and-go traffic was unbearably hot; heat coming up from the asphalt, exhaust from the car ahead. Night was scarcely cooler and the mosquitoes ate you alive. I took an interstate road trip and thought it would be fine, with a steady breeze blowing in from my open window. It rained. Hard. Torrents. The window had to be closed. Now it was roasting with 100% humidity. Worst trip ever.
Good luck to you and your plans. You are not going to get much enjoyment driving. Otoh, the youth of today seem to be happiest when miserable. If that is you, you are going to be in extreme ecstasy.
lol, please, don’t be such a sook.
Where do you get a battery bot (not Russian bot – not the same thing) when you need one?
An “energy containing liquid?” You mean like gasoline?
shhh
‘If only there was a way to recharge a vehicle quickly, so a small number of charge points can service an unusually large number of automobiles without a serious additional delay. Say an energy containing liquid which could be transferred rapidly to the vehicle, to facilitate a fast turnaround when recharging lots of vehicles in a short period of time.’
Ha ha: as if!
My start up business selling a plug in recharging optional extra for EV owners looks more and more potentially profitable.
It comes in two formats. The handy fit in the boot/trunk option that requires a little fitting time i.e. a hole and pipe has to incorporated in the car boot/trunk to handle the excess heat and gas of the system. Alternatively a trailer option that comes with a tow hitch fitment and requires no additional holes in the car as the waste heat and gasses are distributed direct to atmosphere.
Honda have kindly provided the energy source for my recharging plug in anywhere business.
I am thinking, anyone who is happy to pay $50,000 plus for an EV will be more than happy to pay say $5,000 for my option and peace of mind be able to charge anywhere.
The best bit is, you can charge while driving your EV along too, so you never run out of battery That recharge while driving along option requires an additional storage for the ‘liquid’ recharging fluid the system uses.
I’m thinking a crowd funding request would be appropriate to get it all started….
If BEV owners were really concerned about the lack of charging stations, they could club together, raise a bit of cash and get them installed themselves?
Oh, I suppose it is easier to ask the state for free charger installations instead!
I believe the US government is funding 100 electric Tesla semi’s for Pepsi to haul their CO2 infused beverages around the country.
If that doesn’t drive American’s apoplectic with rage that your tax dollars are going to a private company I don’t know what will.
If anyone in the industry thought that these electric semi’s were going to actually save money, Coke would be raising bloody hell about this subsidy to one of its competitors.
How? Why? Its been hapening every day, one way or another, since the War of 76.
I’m sure there must be some poor soul out there who anxiously waited 3+ hours to charge his Tesla so he could make it to the airport for a grand Christmas vacation — flying Southwest!
There was a similar story in the Telegraph. However the problem is that all political parties in the UK support banning of ICE cars from 2030.
EVs do not meet the purposes ICE cars are used for now, but that does not mean it will not happen.
What is more likely, given the political class consensus, is that lifestyles will have to change to accommodate EVs. And that will be really massive. You have to figure:
— More expensive
— Shorter range
— Longer refuel times
And of course, the deteriorating batteries over time. The changes will be very considerable and will impact the less well off much more, because they currently rely on the used market which has plenty of cheap serviceable vehicles. But will not after 2030.
If it remains legal to sell ICE cars we can expect a hugely older parc of them as people cannot or will not exchange them for EVs. If the government of the day is serious about moving to EVs it will have to do something to prevent this.
And when ICEs are no longer in large numbers, how many gas stations will remain with no cars to refuel? Used cars will no longer be marketable if fuel can’t be found to run them or fuel so expensive that no one can afford to fuel them.
There are many places in third world countries with few gas stations but many cars. Adding a twenty gallon tank to the car’s fifteen gallon tank means the loss of trunk space, but that is acceptable. You need only refuel once every thousand miles or so. And gasoline engines can be modified to run on other fuels.
But there are bigger problems if you ban the use of gasoline. Do you also plan to ban jet fuel, asphalt, all types of plastics, a great number of medicines (even aspirin) and hundreds of other products, as well? They are all synthesized from oil. If you continue to produce oil and make those products you will get a huge amount waste product called…gasoline. What do you plan to do with it? Pump it underground and pollute ground water? Dump it in oceans and kill fish? Burn it? smh.
Just like the subdivision of Oxford into a number of isolated enclaves with checkpoint at the intersections — ‘it will happen” regardless of the acceptance of the inhabitants.
I just bought a 1995 Dodge Ram, 2500 Laramie SLT with the 8 liter V-10 engine and a 30 gallon tank for $3,000. Hardley a spot of rust on it above or below. 138,000 mi. It is an awesome hoss. Has the electric brake hookup for a trailer or 5th wheel. Diamond plate protectors for the top edges of the bed sides, full length running boards, and flip out “T” tie down hooks for securing loads in the bed.
I have put new Micheline snow tires on it and had it aligned. Changed the oil and gave it lube job. Put new wiper blades on it. Everything looks great mechanically except it will need a brake job in a year or less.
It has a cracked dash, which is common for those trucks but a new one only costs about $250.00 and I can install it myself. I will place rubber buffers under the screw connections because that is what Dodge didn’t do and is why it is so common for the dash to be cracked in those trucks. I will also get the foldout reflectors panels since I park it outside.
I have other plans for it, but the next thing will be a remote start which is darn nice for a vehicle parked outside in the winter. When I get done with it, it will look nearly show room new. I have no doubt it will be the last pickup truck I need.
So you get GREEN bona fides, since you are recycling!!!
And we all know recycling is far better than just adding more stuff.
Just think of all the recycling that will be done once you can no longer buy an ICE.
Just think of how Cuba has survived on 50 US cars all these years.
Oh, BTW. The frame members on that 1995 are made of steel at least 1/16″ thicker than what you will find in the new pickups that are being sold now.
It’s kinda perplexing how people here in South Jamaica Queens would charge their cars at home since a lot of them don’t have off street parking. But, then, I remember that they won’t have cars to charge so that’s wonderful!
Why is it the Government’s responsibility to supply charging stations?
The huge queues have angered Tesla owners, with many blasting Australia’s lack of electric vehicle infrastructure.
They should have though about that before they purchased. Why should everyday folks have to further subsidise their virtue signalling lifestyles?
Anyone ever calculate out how many charging stations would be required if 100% of the vehicles and 100% of the miles we currently drive were done in electric vehicles using a limited 16 hour day for charging and having at most a 15 minute wait to charge?
3.2 trillion miles at about 0.346 kw per mile.
1.1 trillion kwh energy.
Charge rates seem limited to between 50kw to 350kw with a very quick charge to 80% and a much slower charge rate up to 100% taking generally as long for the last 20% as the 20% to 80% time.
If we just stick to the 50KW, that equals a total charging time of 22.2 billion hours of charging per year. That drops down to, with my 16 hour a day charging period, to 3.8 million hours of charging per day.
So, I guess regardless of charging time, a minimum of 3.8 million charging stations are required to support electric vehicles.
The US has about 145,000 gas stations, at maybe? 6 pumps per gas station, that would equate out to 870,000 gas pumps support the USA.
The fuel stations would need to have 26 charging stations on average to cover us all. Or we would need more fuel stations.
This would require all those stations pulling 100% of their power rating for most of every single day.
That would be 190 gigawatts power draw.
No hurry! Considering that the UK has about 41 million licensed motor vehicles currently, the 420 thousand BEVs represent 1% of the vehicle fleet. How long do you suppose it will take to replace the remaining 99%?
The UK grid teeters on the edge of basic supply failure and the rich and oblivious whine about wanting more superchargers. Sure, just sprinkle fairy dust along the motorway. There, fixed!