Even Stupider Than the Stupidest Litigation in The Country

From the MANHATTAN CONTRARIAN

Francis Menton

I have had several posts on a collection of related cases that I have called “The Stupidest Litigations In The Country.” These are cases where climate hysterics have sued oil and gas producing companies, or the federal government, or both, seeking various extreme punishments ranging from massive damages up to and including an order to end all production of fossil fuels. The asserted grounds vary somewhat from case to case, but a central theme is a claimed constitutional right to a “clean and healthy environment.”

My last update on these cases was a post on April 9. A main subject there was the lawsuit of Juliana v. United States, which is one of the cases where the federal government is the defendant and the goal is to require it to force an end to the production of fossil fuels. The occasion for the post was that, nine years into the litigation, the federal defendant had just launched its third effort to get the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to end the case on the ground of “non-justiciability” — that is, to get the court to rule that such an issue of society-wide energy policy is not a proper subject to be decided by a court. Instead, the Department of Justice was arguing, this sort of question must be left to the political branches of government, that is, legislatures and executives. (On May 1, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit in fact ordered that the Juliana case be dismissed. We’ll see if that sticks. The plaintiffs still have a few litigation options left, including seeking “en banc” review from the full Ninth Circuit, and seeking review from the Supreme Court.)

Meanwhile, be careful what you wish for. If the decision to blame energy-producing companies for everything wrong with the environment is to be left to the political branches, what’s to stop those political branches from jumping into this act?

In the last few days, the legislature in the state of Vermont has done just that. NBC News has the story on May 7, with the headline “Vermont passes bill to charge fossil fuel companies for damage from climate change.”

It looks like little Vermont (population about 650,000) is going to step up to save the planet where all the big players like the federal government and California have failed. The idea here is that the state will force the fossil fuel producers to pay damages to compensate for any losses attributable to “climate change.” If you believe that all extreme weather is the fault of “climate change” (and it appears that they do believe that), then this could add up to some enormous sums. From NBC:

Vermont lawmakers passed a bill this week that is designed to make big fossil fuel companies pay for damage from weather disasters fueled by climate change.

Here is a link to the state legislature’s website for the text of the bill. As of now, the bill appears to have passed both houses of the legislature, and is awaiting the signature of the Governor. The Governor — Phil Scott, a Republican — may well balk. However, the bill passed with very few dissenting votes, so even if Scott vetoes it, there are likely to be plenty of votes of override.

My comment is that this legislation is even stupider than the stupidest litigations. It’s so stupid that even California hasn’t tried it.

Here is NBC’s summary of how the new law will work:

Vermont’s bill, referred to as its Climate Superfund Act, would . . . mandate that big oil companies and others with high emissions pay for damage caused by global warming. The amounts owed would be determined based on calculations of the degree to which climate change contributed to extreme weather in Vermont, and how much money those weather disasters cost the state. From there, companies’ shares of the total would depend on how many metric tons of carbon dioxide each released into the atmosphere from 1995 to 2024.

So what exactly is the game plan? I don’t think that they have thought this one through, to put it mildly. Isn’t every citizen of Vermont a user of fossil fuels? How about the state itself? Exxon may have produced a bunch of gasoline by pumping crude oil and refining it down in Texas, but the state of Vermont is the one that made all those emissions by running a fleet of cars and trucks and heating all its buildings. Is the state prepared to restrict at all the use of fossil fuels in its territory, or is it just going to pretend that nobody but the fuel producers has any role in making emissions?

I can’t wait to see how the litigation back-and-forth plays out. Many possibilities suggest themselves. One likelihood is that the producers could raise prices to their Vermont distributors to recoup whatever extra costs Vermont imposes on them, thus effectively passing any damage claims right back to the Vermont consumers. Or potentially the oil companies could join into the litigation as third-party defendants all the citizens of Vermont and the state itself. That would be fun.

There is likely to be a huge issue of Vermont getting jurisdiction over all or even a few of the fossil fuel producers. Everybody can name about five gigantic oil companies, and most people have the impression that those five companies are responsible for most emissions. But in fact there are hundreds of companies that produce oil, natural gas and coal, and far and away most emissions come from fuels both produced and consumed outside the U.S. Most production of fossil fuels occurs in places like China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and India. Even as to U.S. producers that sell products in Vermont, I believe that under recent Supreme Court law (Daimler v. Bauman), Vermont does not have the ability to force producers to respond to claims in Vermont courts unless the company is either incorporated in Vermont or has its headquarters in Vermont. That’s probably none of them. Will Vermont launch dozens of claims around the country, most in states (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, etc.) that are friendly to fossil fuel producers?

At the Pirate’s Cove, the Pirate has this comment:

What happens if the fossil fuels companies decide to leave? How does the government itself operate without fossil fuels? How do many heat their homes? Get to work? Operate their boats? Do visitors want to deal with high costs, or, just go elsewhere? How do truck bring goods in if there are no gas stations? How do planes get fuels?

Well, the companies can’t get together and all agree to leave. That would be a violation of the antitrust laws. But they can go to the legislature and dare it to ban them all from selling anything in the state. That’s what I would propose they do.

Somehow, the Vermont legislature cannot see how ridiculous it looks blaming fossil fuel producers for carbon emissions when in fact all of the people of Vermont, as well as the state itself, are the ones buying and burning the fuels. Why don’t they just stop if it’s such a bad thing?

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Giving_Cat
May 12, 2024 10:17 am

> “Vermont passes bill to charge fossil fuel companies for damage from climate change.”

Pretty sure a full accounting would result in those companies receiving a sizeable award.

Scissor
Reply to  Giving_Cat
May 12, 2024 11:29 am

It’s interesting that there is not a single oil refinery in Vermont. Therefore, all of their gasoline, jet, diesel and petroleum derived products, plastics, lubricants, tires, etc., are imported.

They should without delay simply ban these things. That’s what they want isn’t it?

Giving_Cat
Reply to  Scissor
May 12, 2024 3:28 pm

California has extraction, refining, import and export. Surely prices are less right?

Scissor
Reply to  Giving_Cat
May 12, 2024 4:59 pm

They are each relatively liberal states but by far California is the most left on an absolute basis.

observa
Reply to  Scissor
May 12, 2024 10:02 pm

Anecdotally you could be right about the most left-
Hundreds of cops flee California to Texas (msn.com)
Lefties are big on demand but somewhat short between the ears with competitive supply.

Reply to  Scissor
May 12, 2024 8:14 pm

Or fine them. I propose Vermont fines them $10 per gallon of petrol they bring into the state. And apply similarly extortionate fines to all the fiendish products made from petroleum that come into Vermont: plastics, synthetic fabrics, fishing line, fishing nets, cosmetics, tires, toilet seats. Fine them all. That’ll show them. Lead by example, Vernmont. We watch your future economy with morbid interest.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  stinkerp
May 13, 2024 9:09 am

That’s just the short list.

May 12, 2024 10:23 am

As cold as Vermont is they should be paying companies for so-called “climate change” to warm it up and suing organizations that want to keep it cold.

Reply to  scvblwxq
May 12, 2024 5:24 pm

The ultimate nimby law. They want it to happen for others …first

May 12, 2024 10:26 am

I hope that all the legislators that voted for this bill are listed for their constituents so they know which ones are actively trying to kill them.

strativarius
May 12, 2024 10:44 am

stupider than the stupidest litigations. It’s so stupid that even California 

In other words, boneheaded

Coeur de Lion
May 12, 2024 10:47 am

Can’t the companies sue for harassment and time wasting?

Curious George
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
May 12, 2024 1:26 pm

No. Senator Bernie Sanders (I, VT, caucusing with Democrats) would put an end to it.

Rud Istvan
May 12, 2024 10:47 am

‘Climate Superfund Act’ would calculate the degree to which climate change contributed to extreme weather in Vermont.

Innumerate Vermont legislators seem long on climate virtue signaling but short on reality. Let’s do some climate contribution calculations.

The worst flooding ever in Vermont was Nov 3-4, 1927. Killed 84. Climate change contribution 0
The only tropical cyclone to hit Vermont was the by then weakened Cat 1 ‘Long Island Express’ of 1938. Killed 5. Climate change contribution 0.
The worst blizzard to hit Vermont was ‘the great white hurricane’ of 1888. Killed 400 across 10 states. Climate change contribution 0.

Zero contribution times any future Vermont extreme weather damage equals zero.

oeman50
Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 13, 2024 5:59 am

As I have stated on other posts, John Karey has stated we could cease emitting CO2 entirely in the US and it would not be enough to overcome the emissions from Asia.

What a bunch of maroons.

May 12, 2024 11:28 am

If a factory is pumping chemicals into a river, and they get sued for environmental damages, presumably the judge will also issue some sort of legal edict – cease and desist? – to force them to stop polluting. Is the state going to issue legislation to prevent FF being sold/used in Vermont? If not, then this is simply a rinse for extra funds.

Reply to  PariahDog
May 12, 2024 12:29 pm

Do you think any of the tobacco litigants wanted tobacco use to stop? Where would their money come from? They are simply parasites looking for another vein to suck on.

May 12, 2024 12:11 pm

The Attorney General of Michigan announced yesterday she was going after oil companies for damages from climate changed caused by them.

We would freeze to death without them. When it’s 20 below F and 20 mph wind houses get cold very quick.

The Attorney General is a crazy woman.

Reply to  mkelly
May 12, 2024 12:30 pm

The Attorney General is a crazy woman parasite.

Reply to  mkelly
May 12, 2024 3:45 pm

She didn’t do this when Winter was just beginning? Waited for milder weather?

Rud Istvan
Reply to  sturmudgeon
May 12, 2024 5:36 pm

She (Dana Nessel) is a lesbian happily now married to ‘wife’ lesbian Alainna’, who previously had an abortion of one of IVF triplets, enabling the two twin borne underweight survivors to be her now sons in college. Seriously messed up.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 13, 2024 3:37 am

Maybe Dana could hook up with my lesbian governor here in Wokeachusetts!

Reply to  Rud Istvan
May 13, 2024 2:02 pm

An example of inventing “new ways to do evil”?

Richard Greene
Reply to  mkelly
May 12, 2024 11:25 pm

The Sue Big Oil Party is just starting

The Attorney General of Michigan announced last week that she was going after oil companies for damages from climate changed caused by them.

On Thursday, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced her office will begin seeking proposals from attorneys and law firms to serve as Special Assistant Attorneys General to pursue litigation related to the climate change impacts on Michigan caused by the fossil fuel industry.

Nessel would become the 10th attorney general in the country to sue Big Oil companies over climate change.

The Transition to Leftist Fascism is accelerating.

Here in SE Michigan

My President is
Jumpin’ Joe Bribe’em

My Vice President is
Kamala “word salad” Harris

My Governor is
Gretchen Witless

My Attorney General is
Dana Nessel

My CongressIdiot is
Rashita “I blame the Jews” Tlaib

This is like living in The Twilight Zone

The large Arab / Muslim population in Michigan, that generally hates Israel, could turn the state red in November 2024. If so, Biden, pr any other Democrat, will lose.

Never mind that the auto industry is the most important industry in Michigan, and EVs are not selling well.

Michigan has the highest number and percentage of Arab Americans at 211,405 and 2.1%, respectively.

Dearborn, where I worked for 27 years, has the highest percentage of Arab Americans among all cities in the U.S. with 55% of its population of Middle Eastern descent.

May 12, 2024 12:24 pm

metric tons of carbon dioxide each released into the atmosphere from 1995 to 2024

Another ex post facto law that somehow escapes the prohibitions of Article 1, Section 10, of the US constitution?

Rud Istvan
Reply to  AndyHce
May 12, 2024 3:56 pm

Um, very close. A1§9.3 Ex post facto technically relates only to after the fact criminalizing past legal conduct. Whether ‘climate fines for past emissions’ are ‘criminal’ or ‘civil’ is just another thing the stupid Vermont legislature did not think thru,

Reply to  AndyHce
May 13, 2024 3:39 am

“metric tons of carbon dioxide each released into returned to the atmosphere from 1995 to 2024″

fixed it! 🙂

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
May 13, 2024 11:35 am

The State linked PDF says 2000-2019.

Maybe is has been updated somewhere. Regardless, the act does not update changing conditions into the future. This make-believe climate fund is intended to use 20 years of emission estimates to define absolute liability for extreme weather events at one small place on the earth (this new line of magic is called ‘attribution science’).

(maybe sometime soon, a kid can go to college in Vermont and get a Bs in Climate Science along with a minor in Attribution Science)

J Boles
May 12, 2024 12:52 pm

“…whatever extra costs Vermont imposes on them, thus effectively passing any damage claims right back to the Vermont consumers.”

YES! YES! Make Vermont pay it all plus a bit more. 🙂 

David Goeden
Reply to  J Boles
May 12, 2024 3:16 pm

Amen, amen, amen!

May 12, 2024 1:18 pm

It seems like there is a competition for the stupidest legislation. This is only the latest entry. More to come until people wise up to the insanity of their representatives.

Reply to  Brad-DXT
May 13, 2024 4:45 am

It’s one of the most hotly contested competitions ever.

lanceflake
May 12, 2024 1:22 pm

Let them go ahead, then take them to court to prove it. It would be fun to see how they make their case against fossil fuels in open court.

MarkW
Reply to  lanceflake
May 12, 2024 4:59 pm

As the courts in NYC have proven over the last few weeks, the outcome of any court cases won’t be decided by the law or facts, it will be decided based solely on what is most convenient for those that run government.

Bob
May 12, 2024 1:55 pm

Vermont doesn’t deserve fossil fuels. If I could I ban all use of fossil fuels in Vermont, synthetic fabrics, plastics, fertilizers and all energy produced with fossil fuels. They deserve to freeze to death in the dark.

Erik Magnuson
Reply to  Bob
May 12, 2024 7:29 pm

My thoughts exactly.

May 12, 2024 2:11 pm

Ban all fuel sales in Vermont , when the public wants to know why publish the names and addresses of those who were party to the action .

rhs
May 12, 2024 3:00 pm

Shouldn’t this force Vermont to articulate the difference between a natural disaster and an enhanced climate disaster?
This should be very easy to refute, with the IPCC stating there is a lack of attribution to disasters and the increase of CO2.
Grab the popcorn as the popcorn will be more filling than the nothing burger being solved.

SCInotFI
May 12, 2024 3:31 pm

I live in this crazy little state and am not alone in condemning the current legislature for its unrealistic virtue-signaling brand of legislating. We routinely shake our heads at the awful state of political affairs here, and the character of the state sliding rapidly into non-functionality. Many are leaving, some in disgust and some because they can’t afford the insane taxes. I wonder where this current govt thinks it will get money to continue on its current course…oh wait, maybe that’s the answer – sue Big Oil!!

Reply to  SCInotFI
May 13, 2024 3:41 am

I know several people from VT who recently moved to Dixie to escape the cold. If it was a few degrees warmer, they may have stayed.

John the Econ
May 12, 2024 6:20 pm

Exactly. It’s the end users doing the actual emitting. Sue each and every citizen of Vermont for their contribution. You can start with a certain socialist and very wealthy Senator who has multiple vacation homes.

But we all know better. Just more of the climate grift chasing people with large sums of cash.

Shame.

Reply to  John the Econ
May 13, 2024 3:42 am

Multiple homes? Probably covered with solar panels- and with a 400′ tall wind turbine in the back yard.

old cocky
May 12, 2024 8:59 pm

Vermont’s bill, referred to as its Climate Superfund Act, would . . . mandate that big oil companies and others with high emissions pay for damage caused by global warming. The amounts owed would be determined based on calculations of the degree to which climate change contributed to extreme weather in Vermont, and how much money those weather disasters cost the state. From there, companies’ shares of the total would depend on how many metric tons of carbon dioxide each released into the atmosphere from 1995 to 2024.

How is this even supposed to work?
Does it apply to the CO2 released by the company itself, or from use of the company’s product?

If it’s from use of the company’s product, does it apply at the retail level, wholesale level, refinery level, or extraction level? How do you determine how much oil used to refine the fuel sold in Vermont came from various producers, such as Shell, BP, Exxon, Saudi Aramco, etc?

The usual way of gouging money is just to bung a tax, excise or levy on sale of the intermediate or final product. Do they already have a sales tax on fuel?

May 13, 2024 2:04 am

WHY do the Oil Companies just ‘deny’ Vermont any of it’s oil in the future and see how long they last.
Use this denial to warn off other States who wish to adopt this mad and crazy virtue signalling waste of public time.

Reply to  climedown
May 13, 2024 11:00 am

And, before re-entering the State market (after the appropriate number of deaths forces the populace to rebel against the current legislation), force some kind of official contract/statement from the State acknowledging that fossil fuels are necessary and beneficial for Vermont and the people of Vermont.

LT3
May 13, 2024 5:49 am

Hypothetical damage models will not hold up in the court room.

Reply to  LT3
May 13, 2024 7:13 am

Apparently they held up well in that idiotic Swiss climate case, involving the aged claiming that they will suffer in the FUTURE from possibly warmer summers. That ruling by woke judges ignored the benefits of a warmer summer (roughly 10x the summer deaths), ignored any possibility of natural warming, and ignored the emissions of 99.89% of humanity and industry, that comes from outside the borders of Switzerland.

Darin Knaus
May 13, 2024 7:38 am

I live right across the river from Vermont in New Hampshire. I am tired or this organized lawfare. What do they expect to accomplish? All it does is waste money and enrich lawyers. An interesting aspect of this not mentioned in the article is that a lot of people heat with wood in VT. Are they going to go after wood producers, which are mostly individuals and small operations? We need to heat our homes in winter for safety. We can’t all buy heat pumps and solar systems and batteries. I would love to see these people go after an air conditioning company or people who use AC. Maybe New Hampshire can sue New York for AC-related carbon emissions and shut them down…

“We have met the enemy and he is us”

Reply to  Darin Knaus
May 13, 2024 10:12 am

‘What do they expect to accomplish? All it does is waste money and enrich lawyers.’

Asked and answered.

mohatdebos
May 13, 2024 8:59 am

I will raise you one. The brilliant attorney general of Michigan, Dana Nessel, has announced that she is planning to sue the oil companies for the damage to Michigan caused by climate change. While her proposal is not different from similar litigation in other states and jurisdictions, there are a number of studies that show Michigan lies in the global warming donut hole: i.e., it has actually cooled slightly in recent years. I don’t know whether the oil and gas companies are taking her proposed litigation seriously, but I would start by asking her to prove (story tip) that Michigan has warmed first.

May 13, 2024 11:37 am

This is complete goofiness.

Almost to the level of Richard Greenessess.

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