It seems that Microsoft has launched a mysterious marketing campaign similar to Halo's I Love Bees.
What are the ethics of expending massive amounts of capital, energy, and man hours on not even a worse version of a game from 30 years ago, but a vague impression of it? These are the questions PCGamer's Ted Litchfield pondered after having gotten motion sickness playing a game for the second time in my life with Microsoft's Copilot AI research demo of Quake 2.
Actually whats key here is the AI part and rather it's ethical or not to be making games using it.
Depends how you think about it, not everyone is going to be happy.
It's like AI art, I see there's already many pissed off about it.. what else can I say. I guess it's like marmite.
Well I hope nobody wanted to go to school to learn programming games with hopes of working their way up. Microsoft is hell bent on destroying gaming.
AI has been used in gaming in many shapes and forms for like 10 years now, this is nothing new, won't be the first and won't be the last and the hardware in your pc/console also uses AI, it's literally already everywhere in gaming and you didn't even notice.
Microsoft is showing you their plan is to create whole games with AI, replacing all the humans who create the games.
You can't write this off by saying "a GPU has AI" the GPU isn't replacing any humans.
Every company would be creating full AI games if they had the chance and could get away with it, or the company hates money.
You do realize if they test an AI to build a game, they can detect what parts of it, it does well and only implement the things it does well, just an example i came up with in 5 seconds. An army base doing a drill doesn't mean they're going to war and a company doing tests with AI doesn't mean they will switch full development to AI. Why does it always have to be on the extreme end....AI can be a very important tool for devs, if it gets developed and tested well.
The gpu was just an example, he implied AI was some sort of cancer yet he doesn't mind benefiting from it himself.
That really does look like a bad rip-off of Quake, just because you could do something, doesn't mean you should. Plus, it that demo video looked stuttery to me.
Microsoft posted and removed a new Xbox UI image with Steam games listed.
STEAM is DEFINITELY coming to Xbox consoles!!!
Now I´m more than HYPED for my Next Gen Xbox CONSOLES!!!
LETS GOOOO
“I’m told Microsoft is still in the early stages of this Xbox app update, so the company might never ship the feature to list all your Steam games.”
Listing games you own on Steam isn't "Steam." The GOG desktop app used to list your library as well, it wasn't Steam.
You really do live for any type of Xbox news or rumors don't you? Lol
If there was an article that said Phil Spencer woke up and got out of bed today, you would be the first one to comment super excited and typing in all caps.
@anast
The kind you'd want to bury in a desert island and leave it there forgotten through time? Yeah, I can see that...
If you read into it more they are attempting to emulate games from previous consoles which again bring with it licensing implications
Backwards compatibility is not guaranteed
This is what we call an Xbot.^^^^^^ He doesn't care otherwise but because he's been so loyal to Xbox and sees it on the verge of death, he'll overdramatize anything thinking it's gonna sell people that have long since left Xbox behind or never were there anyway. This is a desperate manipulative act thinking he's gonna change minds and succeed but, Xbox is on its death bed. Even the original creators know it hasn't been Xbox in two console generations and know it's on life support too
it's not steam coming to xbox console. Next xbox is more likely just a pc, there is no console in xbox anymore...
Hyped for a rental service adding another rental service...You do you Obscure. You got my upvote.
Tell me:
What´s is not a "rental service" in gaming nowadays?
Physical media is dying, and when it finally happen, what you gonna do? Leave gaming?
GoG and physical discs. Some companies prioritize this stuff, others don't. I'm not sure it is in the consumers best interest to be championing rental services.
SONY DEFENSE FORCE MOBILIZE!! All agents report to damage control STAT! threat level midnight!!,
You realize having Steam on Xbox defeats the purpose of Microsoft having the Xbox Store front right?
Why would Microsoft sabotage their own store front.
I think this means that Xbox is coming to PC. This is basically a PC with an Xbox UI. Of course it can play Steam because it's a PC. They are just adding a tab in the Xbox UI. Again the real interesting thing will be if you can play your Xbox games on it
but how would that even work tho.
are ms hoping that players might play these steam and epic dtore games on their consoles?
wouldnt there be alot of licensing and all that stuff be necessary?
and would that be even profitable for ms? cause if i buy games on steam, they wont get that money ha
the idea itself is great but the execution is alot more complicated than they might think. especially on consoles.
"are ms hoping that players might play these steam and epic dtore games on their consoles?"
No sure about Epic, but regarding Steam, yes!
"wouldnt there be alot of licensing and all that stuff be necessary?"
No. Even because it´s not just consoles. Handhelds, Laptops, Tablets, Mobile... all of those devices will share the same OS, Windows!
"and would that be even profitable for ms? cause if i buy games on steam, they wont get that money ha"
MS wouldn´t allow a competitor store to be inside their own ecosystem if there´s no money involved. Also, unlike Sony, MS has a partnership with STEAM to bring Xbox games exclusively to VALVE´s platform. This move sounds like they´re expanding their partnership even further.
"the idea itself is great but the execution is alot more complicated than they might think. especially on consoles"
Perhaps. Remains to be seen. Exciting news for Xbox consoles players regardless.
All this from a pic of a mockup ui for pc?
Ms already told you they wanted to update the pc ui to make it a more console like experiance, how that equates to running steam pc games on a console is a giant leap, at that point it's not a console, it's a prebuilt pc with an xbox sticker, and if you have a large steam library, you already have a decent pc, so what would the need be?
what would the need for an xbox store even be at that point if your just allowing access to others store fronts? I dont think you have thought this through at all, this news has nothing to do with Xbox console players, why would they get excited by a pc ui doing something others have done for years?
Ms is gonna move you hard-core boys over to pc and drop the console, they didn't go third party for nothing.
But if you are an Xbox console player why would you have Steam games...cause you got a PC that can play Xbox games better than the current console, so why do you have an Xbox?
I'm jealous of your downvotes.... The haters are so salty Microsoft is trying to obliterate the outdated console model.
@IRetrouk
"All this from a pic of a mockup ui for pc?"
Where did you get that info? Do you have a source or you just made that up?
"Ms is gonna move you hard-core boys over to pc and drop the console, they didn't go third party for nothing."
Third party, hu? Interesting...
Let me take an educated guess: So you really believe that the next Xbox Showcase in a few months will have ALL of its first party games announced for the PS5 and Switch 2 besides Xbox and PC, right? Right?
Its literally in all the reports obscure why are you pretending to be dense?
We've had this convo before, first it was no games, then 4 games, then old games, then timed, so honestly? Who knows what they will or won't announce at this next showcase, but I can safely bet we are gonna see the ps logo at that show, phil already told you to get used to it, remember? the simple fact is ms wants the ps player base to buy their games, they can't do that if they not on it.
I know you hate this new direction, you should move to pc before they really do drop the consoles, cause that's coming, I know you know it too.
Omg. You can smell the ignorance and fear from the SDF. Full force defence ongoing.
For all the rest this can never be a bad thing that they open up the platform to hold everything and put a console ui on top.
Stop being so defensive
Lol what? What's there to fear? I've been saying since 2020 they would be going 3rd party, they doing exactly what I thought they were going to do.
Seeing a mockup of a pc ui that shows your pc library and equating that to steam games running on a console is the real defensive thinking lol, micro are moving you boys over to pc, which is what you two are describing, I'd get used to it if I were you.
@IRetrouk
You did not provide the source so I´m just gonna assume that you don´t have one.
Now, imo, you´re the one pretending to be dense here.
There´s gulf between going multi platform (Sony and MS) x going full third party like SEGA did.
Regarding the upcoming Xbox Showcase, what Phil said is they want to be "transparent" regarding future announcements for both PS5 and Switch 2 and that´s it! In no moment he said that going forward everything is going to be announced for everyone.
"I know you hate this new direction, you should move to pc before they really do drop the consoles, cause that's coming, I know you know it too."
Been hearing the same tale since MS gone multiplat with PC. I´m hearing the same tale now despite the fact that MS already confirmed their next gen console.
You talk about think things through, at the same time you fail to do so when you put your own agenda in the way.
I mean, what´s make you think that I hate Microsoft´s new direction? Because those games are no longer "exclusives"? Because *more* games will be able to enjoy it?
Let me break down for you:
1- Those games weren´t exclusives since MS decided and release it to PC.
2- Seen those games charting on PS Stores doesn´t make me sad at all because; If anything, it will only help XGS developers to keep their jobs and make more money, their games gets more recognition and engagement from more gamers and secure future sequels/projects to get approval. As result, those studios will be able to expand/hire more people, as more developers will seek those studios looking for more security and stability regarding their jobs.
"Ms is gonna move you hard-core boys over to pc and drop the console, they didn't go third party for nothing."
Sure, and they just gonna kill Game Pass Ultimate, their most profitable and popular tier hoping that Xbox console gamers will just migrate to PC.
Talk about think things through. /S
Your own link mentions it man🤦
There is no difference in what you described lol, they are now a 3rd party publisher, they will launch everything everywhere that makes sense, at first you said it would never happen, then only old games, now its timed and not everything? Each time ms has changed what they are saying so have you, they will go day and date before this gen is over, that's obvious to everyone but the most harcore xbox fans. Phill said to expect more going forward and no red lines, its not my agenda lol it's microsofts🤦
You were hearing they were going to start releasing games on ps and didn't believe it till it happend so🤷♂️
Ms also confirmed a new windows phone before there wasn't so🤷♂️
You tow the company line, whatever phil and co say, you repeat lol, you used to love exclusives, untill they never mattered to ms, all this pro dev crap is utterly bullshit, you dont care about them, if you did you would buy their games, not rent them,
Ofcourse moving your game over to a player base that actually buy games is a good move and it will deff help those studios, that's shit is obvious and why I said all those years ago that's exactly what ms will do it for..... acting like your happy about it or having it as an excuse for why this shit don't bother you is comical, we can all see your past comments on the subjects lol.
They gonna use gamepass to move you over....watch.
This is about PlayStation. Phil Spencer wants Xbots to be able to play God of War, The Last of Us, Spider-man, and Astro Bot on his console. But, to be able to have Steam on Xbox, they're going to get you to pay a subscription to access it. This is about getting PlayStation games he can't get otherwise. He's looking for a back door and PlayStation was stupid enough to port games to PC and set themselves up for this. I saw this coming two years ago when Phil. Spencer said he wanted the option to have Steam on Xbox, not for the other games, because they're already on Xbox. He wants PlayStation games playable on his hardware to appear PlayStation wants to walk the same path he is as though he's paving the way of the future when really, he lost horribly in a tremendous embarrassment
Sony can simply block access like they do with the nvidia steaming stuff, so if that's phils plan, its gonna be a bust.
Depends how protective over their 1st party Sony is. Sony likes money and profits so who knows. Sony's games don't hit PC for a about a year or 2 after so I don't think Sony would deny access of their games through steam on Xbox.
Who knows tbh.
If it's just a custom Windows OS (which it already is)
It won't need any special licensing or anything. It's no different than buying a PC and downloading steam.
Seems cool but at the same time nothing would change on my end. Good for Xbox only gamers I suppose.
How is this going to work though?
And does this mean xbox consoles basically become steam machines?
So the rumours claiming future Xbox consoles are basically steam machines may not be that far off?
One theory is that the next 'Xbox box' will just be a Windows PC with a gaming frontend, letting you play games from all PC marketplaces. Another theory is that they might combine Steam's home streaming with Steam Family Share, so essentially, from a single app, Xbox, you could access your entire library across consoles and PC via streaming.
"And does this mean xbox consoles basically become steam machines?"
More like Steam will become Xbox. If the rumor turn out true, of course.
It will become part of the Xbox ecosystem. Nothing more, nothing less. It´s not really different from EA Play for example.
Because they couldn't get PlayStation games and with PlayStation releasing their games on Steam, this is how Phil Spencer feels like he wins. He wants PlayStation quality games on his console and he can't achieve that so by doing this, he figures he can now get his loyal Xbox fans to get God of War, Spider-man, Helldivers II, etc. He doesn't care about Steam otherwise, this is getting PlayStation quality games and PlayStation games on his console to move hardware.
PlayStation, we told you to keep it off the competition. Nintendo hasn't posted anything to PC or anything other than a Nintendo console for that matter, because they're confident in their hardware. By turning the Xbox, literally, into a PC, you can install Steam and make your Xbox a PlayStation, Xbox Xbox makes money for the hardware. PlayStation, you shouldn't have gone to PC to begin with. It's painfully obvious what the objective of this is
Replies(1)
the only way i see it working, is steam is allowed to put its storefront on xbox but a % will go to microsoft, instead of steam getting 30% they will split that with microsoft and both will get 15%, so the next xbox could have multiple storefronts
15% is high to be honest. If Valve were to agree to something like that (which is a big IF), I don't see Microsoft get more than 3%, with Valve keeping the other 27%. Microsoft needs Valve waaaaaay more than Valve needs Microsoft. They may even just put the steam store on there for free while still doubling down on game pass.
The prospect of the next Xbox Series X is not Microsoft-ing me crazy.
The only thing a console should excite anyone about is its role as a middle-of-the-road solution: a cheaper entry point than a PC but with fewer features and worse graphics/performance; more expensive than streaming but with the benefits of native gaming.
Anything else is either gone or extremely reduced from what it once was. Innovative controllers? Not really. Nintendo still tries something, but overall, they have aligned more with traditional designs. Exclusives? They still exist to some extent, but fewer games than ever before are exclusive. Most of Sony's titles eventually end up on PC, and while the Switch had a solid run, a good chunk of its 'exclusives' were just Wii U ports. I doubt they will be able to repeat that with the Switch 2.
Ease of use? The more features they try to incorporate, the less user-friendly they become. Even something as basic as finding a good game on their store without an external resource is a pain. Standardized experience? Not anymore. Now we have at least three different performance modes, plus whatever exclusive mode the 'pro' console will introduce.
Physical media? PlayStation still supports it, but many games are now digital-only. On the Switch, it’s already a coin toss whether the full game is on the cartridge or if you’ll need to download a large portion of it. With the Switch 2, I fully expect that to get even worse. And with Xbox, they might as well not exist as the games are rarely on the disc.
You've said a lot here but I have to disagree
Controller wise Xbox is the only one of the big three that keeps their design the same
The ps5 has tons of innovation in the duelsense and VR controllers the switch has countless controller designs and ways to play
Ease of use they are largely still plug and play they need the internet more these days buy you can still take a ps5 out of the box and as long as the game doesn't have a internet require or downlad required you can play
The switch is very user friendly to the point I've seen young kids pick it up and play with no instructions
Physical media well that's going to die off eventually unfortunately but for the moment pretty much every first party Sony and Nintendo game runs from a disc without a patch or a cart in switches case
Consoles are as great as they've ever been in my view
It doesn't. The DS5 is merely an iteration of a very basic design that a couple of people on the internet try to hype more than it should, because their company is great. The Switch, as I said, does offer something more unique, but Nintendo has fallen into the basic controller trap as of late. Pretty much every single one of their games can be played with the same basic method used decades ago.
VR controllers are a completely different beast because VR itself is a completely different beast. They are barely related to consoles unless you consider the Meta Quest a console in itself.
It is not. Give a console to an older person and watch them try to set it up. Ask them to buy something from the store. Ask them to freaking leave the game. The Switch is, again, a bit different because Nintendo has stripped it of pretty much everything what in theory made it simpler, unless when it doesn't. Because they stripped it of so much that for months you couldn't even log in to a public wifi with the device, as Nintendo had stripped it from a browser.
Every first party game from Sony and Nintendo is quite literally just a handful of titles on quite literally thousands are released. You are aware of that, right? Plus, that also ignores updates. Some Nintendo games have, quite literally, half a dozen of updates.
Sure, if you were born a decade ago and have no clue what they once offered, they are still great. If you did, you would agree that the only thing they have going for them now is the low admission price while keeping most things running natively.
Same goes for next gen Sony console.. first time ever i will pass if they don’t change their broken vision
Keep your pc evangelism to yourself. Most people don't want to game on a pc with its stupidly expensive parts and constant tinkering with settings and updates, get a grip, lol.
@Vits
You’re talking about consoles by comparing them unfavorably to PCs … ie, you’re PC evangelizing.
Yeah to be clear my first console was the NES and obviously by the nature of those systems they were extremely simple out game in press power and play I still have my old systems console gaming has evolved because it had to we wanted more everything more graphics more social elements and we ended up with what we had today.
Its not perfect and has trade offs like games requiring the internet and patches but it's about as simple as we will get.
Thing is with the hand a game to a older person example is that it was no different 40 years back old people didn't know what way the cartridge had to go in the NES what button did what how to tune it in if using the RF signal Same thing goes on today.
Yes the duelsense may be overhyped in its feature set but the thing is it is trying new and different things it's not the same as the ds4
And as for third parties requiring a patch that's out of the hands of the console manufacturer and first party it's down to the third parties mishandling of the development of said game But eventually became a shortcut.
But by your logic the grass isn't greener anywhere besides grabbing a mega drive.
PC , PlayStation, Xbox, switch all share the same flaws in many of these regards.
It's not as simple as it gets. Streaming is pretty much where that simplicity is. These days, it works just like old consoles. You pick a game and play it.
That is the silliest comparison I have ever heard. Really. There is no way you can seriously say that putting a little game cartridge into a slot is the same as setting up a new modern console. I'm sorry, but I will not engage with this level of dishonesty.
It is still nothing new. It is just the same thing but with a lot of hype. A lot of ads told people it was special, and then some people keep repeating that without thinking. The same way they do with the "super-duper mega SSD" and the "super innovative ML upscaling." All of it is just BS marketing, just iterations of things we have had for years.
I don’t care whose fault it is. That is not what we are talking about. What matters is that games on discs and cartridges are going away. Most games don’t come like that anymore, and the few that do are missing parts, so you still need the internet to play most of them.
Probably because, as my freaking post made clear, I was not saying that something else is better. Did you even read what I said, or did you just assume things because you really, really love consoles? My whole point is that consoles are mediocre by design. They are not the best at anything. They sit in the middle, not as strong as a gaming PC but not as simple and cheap as streaming. If at some point they had other core strengths, those have been stripped away or severely reduced. Now they are just the middle-of-the-road option. They are the Mario of Super Mario Bros. 2.
Xbox might not as well exist because their games are rarely on disc? So Steam should not exist! I've not bought a disk since 2014. Should not exist. 🤷♂️
Wrong. Look at PlayStation ports to PC for example. Having a console isnt just a cheaper option, everything is perfectly optimized and having it's closed ecosystem ensures top performance. You know, there was actually a time when game consoles were more powerful than PCs. Once Xbox 360 came along and everyone started griping about proprietary hardware that created innovation and gamers tried to tuck the PS3 away, we lost that. The Steve Jobs of gaming was suppressed and consoles went to off the shelf PC parts thus now leaving consoles behind PCs. It's really that simple. Look at Rise of the Ronin, for example. Runs great on PS5, but as usual, runs flawed on a PC, which is funny because ALL games are developed on a PC, that's the irony
I say that's exactly what they want, because they want us to go to streaming. Native hardware and game is necessary and online match, streaming is the worse. My wireless mouse is still laggy as fk and that's local
Yes Microsoft is all about control. They want you online only, subscribed for life, and GaaSed up to the eyeballs.
I think there is a very good point underlying here that as consoles have adopted more and more PC features (updates, installs, user selected visual modes and features) then what has made consoles unique and easier to use than a PC has sort of been lost.
For me, the trade off of consoles compared to PC was that I was paying maybe more for the hardware and software based upon a certain level of convenience that the console just worked, I could drop in a game and just play it immediately in a format that a developer had decided was a best compromise which I was happy with. Now if I buy a new game it’s 30 mins to install from the disk, plus about the same again to download a 20gb+ update (100gb+ if wanting to go back to a old COD single player campaign) then making decisions about frame rates and visual fidelity, textures, shadows etc.
I understand that many want the choice and the flexibility, but the old timer in me feels I already made that choice and that’s why Ive kept choosing console instead of PC over 35 years. If game streaming gives me any hope, it’s that some of that console simplicity can come back (but with different trade offs about ownership and preservation).
I like things about both console and PC, but there are still other painful things on a PC that consoles avoid. Like not downloading updates while on standby and having to do graphic card updates yourself only to find that your game takes an extra 5 or more minutes to start because it now has to compile textures.
Plus when consoles release new features like 3D audio and controller features, every game on the console is forced to support it. It's consistent.
For sure there’s more consistency about using features on console, though not universal (see patchy 3rd party use of PS5 Haptic Feedback).
Don’t get me wrong, there seem to be some console type things which are now present on PC like the single launcher, user interface and achievements from Steam / Epic etc but I don’t think that has taken away from the PC experience.
For me at least some of the console experience has been lost by becoming more PC like as the 2 different things have converged. It’s not bad, it’s just a different trade off
Sure there seems to be even less of a rational to buy an Xbox than ever before with there first party being ported over to playstation and Nintendo (I've never owned one). But there remains a small community of gamers that will always chose a Microsoft/xbox console because they like their ui/ ecosystem.
Precisely.
Next gen Xbox will be made with the core Xbox gamer as the target audience.
People will be able to enjoy all Xbox games on whatever platform they want. Console war is dead for good.
Hehe it’s pretty obvious there are always some. ie you lol.
Also, there are still millions of gamers with large libraries of games and subscriptions. MS needs to continue servicing them. It’s the responsible thing to do.
Should probably put something about this only being open to UK residents in your title. Unless you want to mislead folks.
i'm guessing it's US only.
Gaf already solved these. Theres similar ARG's going for DR3, QB, and Ryse. Which they also solved. Shame I can't see the answers to share with you guys.
nah, I'll pass.
The real mystery is that 720p rez. What's the deal, MS. Solve that problem first,