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TIL A Kiwi-woman got arrested in Kazakhstan, because they didnt believe New Zealand is a country.
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I remember reading about this a while ago, I think they knew about New Zealand not being a state of Australia but just wanted a bribe.
But perhaps they really didn't know and the bribe would have worked either way? Hard to tell.
It's exactly that - they wanted a bribe and she didn't get the message and it all snowballed when all these officials got involved, so they had to play dumb to save face rather than admit corruption.
I also remember reading the standard bribe is only something like 20USD. Not talking mega bucks here for tourists.
But it is a shitty way to go about asking for a bribe. They could have just used the standard line about a fee. By not recognizing the passport of a certain country you are actually starting a foreign relations incident that is actually really serious. If she really held her own, got in contact with Embassies and such this could have been a huge problem. Denying passports like that is a violation of international treaties and could lead to sanctions.
IIRC, the map thing was when they were trying to save face.
And regarding the bribe I believe it's still quite common to just put a note in with your passport as you hand it over. Job done. It's when she didn't do this and they then asked some leading questions that would suggest 'ah ok they just want a little bit of cash' and she still didn't get the hibt that it then got farcical
That sounds unbelievably dangerous. While it might work in some countries, it could easily get you locked up for decades in others.
I would rather that corrupt officials just ask for a "processing fee" or something. I don't care what. If you want money just ask for it and make life easy for everybody.
I'm not a world traveler so I won't try to dispute this, but where is this true?
My passport says it's property of the government. It never occurred to me that this is helpful to me because if a foreign country "takes" it they're taking something not from me but from the government of the United States.
that's not why it says that...
the reason it says that is so that the passport can be revoked at the behest of the issuing authority at their will (subject to whatever law).
it's not helpful at all, either. passport surrenders are routine when foreign nationals are arrested - Embassies don't call in saying "you can't take that, it's ours!"
She did take it that direction. Reality is that there just isn't enough external trade between New Zealand and Kazakhstan to warrant much of an impact.
$20 every time someone stops you could be a lot of money
Especially since expectation of that bribe encourages such behavior.
How much is that in dollarydoos?
Three sheep and half a pavlova.
NZ pavlova? Or Australian pavlova?
It's not about the amount, it's about it being a fucking bribe.
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I feel the same way about tipping, but that's another conversation altogether.
It's more like 20 is what they'll accept, if you claim you can't afford the initial 200 or so they ask for.
I can't afford none of that shit if I just got off a plane that took me from New Zealand to Khazakhstan. Get out of my way, immigration grunt.
I was in Azerbaijan with someone from Belgium. I specifically learned how to say Belgium in Russian and Azeri in case we were stopped.
We were stopped. Neither name worked. I think he didn't just want a bribe though...because when we said that the capital of Belgium was Brussels, he said: "no no, Brussels is the capital of Europe."
Still, I think a bribe would have worked.
eventually it rather devolved:
Us: West of Germany
Him: that's France
Us: no, north of France
Him: that's the Netherlands
To be fair, the fellow might just have known that, as Douglas Adams taught us, Belgium is the most offensive word in the Galaxy.
He was merely trying to be civil as you relentlessly swore at him.
Belgium, man, belgium...
I still use that occasionally. Only appears in the US version, but so much funnier.
Wait really? What's in the UK version?
If he just had brought his towel, the problem would have been solved easily!
to be fair, the guy's geography isn't bad
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If you asked most westerners what borders Azerbaijan they wouldn't be able to tell you, to be fair.
ummmm...its probably not Belgium is it... :/
I think it's hilarious that this guy is pretty well-informed about European geography, except for the existence of Belgium
There's a good chance he was fucking with them. Also, I can kinda see someone calling Brussels the capital of Europe.
For most intents and purposes, Brussels is the capital of Europe. I've been saying for a while now, might as well just dissolve Belgium, turn it over as an EU home territory. ;) (half kidding)
"Belgium?"
takes a draw on a cigarette
"There's no such place"
That probably wasn't funny at the time, but it's hilarious now.
deleted 0.1395 What is ^^^this?
Maybe he's used to the EU4 map?
am from belgium, can confirm. we're a tiny spec on the map. you can see us from space at night though, since we have worse light pollution than paris (aka the city of light)
Kazakhs wanted a bribe? Yeah that pretty much sums up our culture.
I also read it as another example of a Westerner being completely oblivious when asked for a bribe.
How much are bribes anyway? Is there a set price, or do you have to haggle?
The safest route is usually asking is there's a fee that you can pay to expedite the process. That lets them name their price. If you're feeling adventurous, you can say that you can't afford that -- you can only afford ___.
Can confirm, had to pay "a fee" to leave a country, didn't have the exact amount in the local currency, paid some 10% less, was still ok, and the money disappeared into a drawer that didn't look like a cash register at all.
Am I just too privileged and American to find this so utterly offenseive? "Fuck you, let's get the nearest US Embassy on the phone."
EDIT: RIP Inbox
I crossed into Cambodia once and a guard had a little sign asking for his bribe, with the amount and everything. Forewarned by my guidebook I asked him for a receipt and he gave a little smile as if to say "Aw, you got me," and waved me past.
I mean, I almost don't even mind that.. Sure still bribes, but that's about the nicest bribe I've ever heard.
All the times I've heard about it they bring it up, "well, for a $50 expedited service fee - cash - we put you into express security where we don't care what country you're from". Aka "give us $50", but maintains the appearance of legitimate activity without overtly omitting to it being a bribe. When they leave it open ended that puts you in a hell of a position, because they might arrest you for bribery if you read the situation wrong.
$20 worked for me in Romania. $40 to get out of a beating in Turkey. (Some rough looking dudes tried to charge me $100 for a drink.)
When I was asked for a bribe in Eastern Europe (twice) I grabbed a young person walking by and asked them to translate what the officer was saying.
Both times met with:
"Nononono you go."
I don't get what you are saying. Are you saying that because you had a witness, they didn't want the bribe anymore? or did the young person say "you go"?
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This happens in China too but the public are really starting to hate gov corruption now. My friend was caught riding illegally on a bike and before they even processed anything he got his overly large Chinese style man purse out and start counting 100s in full public view of hundred of Chinese onlookers. They quickly shooed him along without taking the bribe.
As a clueless Westerner, about how much money would be a suitable bribe in this situation?
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That's a lot of dong
Arriving at the airport and getting a visa on arrival, they used to charge an extra $20 usd, but only give you a receipt for the actual visa amount.
Source, lived & worked in Kazakhstan for 13yrs and the exact same thing happened to my sister, plus many other expats that I knew over many years. On the upside, I've managed to leave to country after overstaying, had visas renewed via 3rd parties and numerous other document infractions "fixed", all for the price of a bottle of Johnny Walker Red.
The woman in the article was also trying to promote her travel blog with a bit of controversy. Heck, i've had random people in Kazakhstan over the years tell me what the nz capital was and the nautical distance was to Sydney. They had been in the Soviet navy - submarine branch.
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"Yeah, right. I've never even heard of Old Zealand."
Abel Tasman (Dutch) was credited with discovering New Zealand. One of our provinces in the Netherlands is called "Zeeland"
So here's "old" Zealand! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeeland
also gave his name to Tasmania
And the Tasman Sea, between Australia and New Zealand
Adolescent Zealand is where it's at.
Millennial Zealand is way better.
Get your avocado toast here!
It's just Zealand, ok? Like England vs New England
r/MapsWithoutNZ
For those that didn't read the article:
One of the few New Zealanders who when asked where they live don't point to Australia
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It almost was an Australian state but they pulled out at the last minute over a misunderstanding of the pronunciation of the word 'shear'. Kiwi diplomats were horrified at the thought of having to share their sheep.
It was so last-minute that New Zealand is included in the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act, only six months before Federation.
Getting in touch with a an Australian Embassy would help though. This could be a major incident if they wanted it to be. Denying the passport of a country is not something you can do lightly. Especially when you are saying you don't recognize it as a country. That is the kind of thing you bring up at the UN.
Why would a kiwi point to Australia when showing where they live?
New Zealanders have a right to travel, live and work in Australia without any visa or paperwork. To say that they take advantage of that program would be an understatement, the population of NZ is about 4.5M while about 650,000 New Zealanders live in Australia.
Apparently the deal is reciprocal but nobody has bothered to test it to find out.
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Or scaffolder. I swear, kiwis could scaffold up to the fucking moon if they wanted to.
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So what were you pointing at if you weren't looking at a map?
I'm picturing a "pin the tail on New Zealand" scenario.
Maybe from space. Or if they're already in Papua New Guinea, to almost any point before the horizon would suffice.
All I wanna know is where is Papua Old Guinea?
Also are guinea pigs from the Guinea in Africa or the Papua one?
Also is that where Guinness is from?
Edit: actually learning things from a shitpost is why I love the internet. Thanks!
Papua is what the locals called the island, but a Spaniard thought they looked like the people of Guinea, an area of West Africa around the Gold Coast, and so he called the island New Guinea.
So Old Guinea is in West Africa, and Papua/New Guinea is the name of the island that is currently divided between Papua New Guinea in the East and Indonesian Papua/Western Guinea in the West.
Neither, Guinea Pigs are from Peru
Papua New Guinea is built on the ruins of Papua Old Guinea. Old Guinea was destroyed in the Hamster Wars of 1645.
Guinness is named for the guy that invented it, Arthur Guinness.
Guinness which was originally McGuinness is an anglicisation of "MagAonghusa" which means Son of Aonghusa, Aonghusa being an archaic Gaelic spelling for Angus, and mean "The chosen one" or "The unique choice".
It's like Budapest, 2 places next to each other so the names are stuck together. The twin cities of Buda and Pest separated by a river, and the Indonesian province of Papua and the nation of New Guinea. There are a couple other Guineas around
EDIT: Indonesia
To which she should have replied: "What is this 'Cassastan' you speak of? We're in the USSR here! Show me a real map and not a map with made up names for made up countries!"
i feel like in an interrogation room in a foreign country whose language you dont speak is the wrong time to get snarky.
No no, let bob make his own mistakes. Otherwise he won't learn.
Kazakhstan always had a legal, independent existence under the Soviet regime.
Aha. So why did they have a world map that didn't include New Zealand?
"Wait, you're saying there's a NEW Zealand now? What's wrong with the old one? The Danes don't seem to have a problem with it."
New Zealand was named after Zeeland, a province in the Netherlands. It is nearly 1000 kilometers away.
One day, after the nukes fall and civilization will be forgotten, one nation will endure. New Zealand. Because the ICBM computer map forgot to have New Zealand.
You kid but there's always a chance
Gandhi never met the Auckland city-state.
And the nukes that were destined to hit Finland just hit Japanese fisher boats instead
What's the story with this phenomenon? Why do so many maps leave off NZ?
Laziness/cost savings, at least in the case of small resolution maps or 3D sculpted ones.
Often maps without NZ are also missing Madagascar, too... Or Svalbard, but at least that's not a country of its own.
So during the nuclear holocaust I should move to madagascar or NZ, or Svalbard (wherever the fuck that is). And pray the govt didn't bother paying for a higher resolution map or use Gmaps.
Don't go to Svalbard, that's where the Global Seed Vault is. It will definitely get nuked.
Obviously Saruman has something to do with that.
Because it's clearly a state of Australia. Didn't you read the article?
But the landmass isn't even there. That's the point of the subreddit.
Well maps sometimes leave off Taiwan because of political reasons.
For example, SNL's news bit used to show Taiwan in the background but after some yellin and hollerin they randomized all of Oceania and noticably took Taiwan away.
I can't believe this is a populated subreddit
Are you saying this sub wasn't on your map?
Zing
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I was once denied alcohol in California because neither my passport, drivers licence or any credit card was issued in the USA.
(Am Australian)
That's bullshit. Your Australian passport would be sufficient in every bar I've ever worked at.
Fuck you California bar!
My buddy couldn't get alcohol at Wal-Mart with a Mexican passport.
I couldn't get alcohol as an Californian with a US Passport card while in California.
I think people just panic when they see a non-driver's license used as ID.
On the other side I was sold beer in a US Waltmart at age 20. Cashier saw my german passport and yelled "What's the drinking age in Germany" to her colleague. They settled on 16 (which is correct) and sold me beer.
Most places I've worked at acceptable ID included.
State issued drivers licence
State issued ID
Passport
Military ID
They added a new one a couple years ago but I don't remember what it is.
I'm gonna guess that a business like Wal-Mart may not have properly trained cashiers as selling alcohol is not their primary function. Your buddy should have tried a liquor store. They will haven a better idea of what acceptable IDs are.
I couldn't get alcohol in an Ohio restaurant with a Georgia (the US state) drivers license.
People are dumb and don't realize that a passports is a legit form of id. With this booklet you can cross borders but not buy a beer. Drinking alcohol is the right of Americans only.
A friend of mine was denied alcohol in the US because she had a license from DC, and the bartender thought the District of Columbia was outside the US.
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It's perfectly legal! You're just not allowed to ask for it (it has to be offered) and you're not allowed to take down the number. Partially because of this misconception and partially because of liability issues, a lot of places won't take health cards, but they're certainly allowed to.
Source: Security guard, smart serve certified, and the response I received from the AGCO when asking about differences between their website and the smart serve training (emphasis mine):
We advise that licensees do not 'request' the Health Card do to the information on the card itself, but if the individual is willing to show their Health Card as a form of identification that they may accept it. Yes, they may choose not to accept the Health Card at all or per their discretion. I recommend you check with the Establishment to find out if they would accept your health card as part of your ID.
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So they just don't give alcohol to foreigners?
fascists
I beg your pardon?
I was denied at a liquor store because my driver's license was from out of state. My dad got mad and was like "she was born here!" but they said it was store policy. No biggie though, I had my dad pay and then I paid him back.
It's ridiculous - even if you're on a short trip they expect you to go to the DMV and take out a state license to use as ID
It's at their discretion if they accept it or not, but it's a common story
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Same happened to me except I am from the UK. I pointed out that my passport was good enough ID for Homeland Security to let me in the country but the dude just responded with it still could be fake. I was 32.
Simply being Australian and looking like you MIGHT be an adult would be enough for me to serve someone.
"G'day mate, you got any real beer or do I have to deal with that piss you cunts drink?"
"Coming right up!"
What kind of hotel is this??
"How were we supposed to know that guests might be coming from outside the local area?"
Says the hotel, in a major tourist destination.
Edit: Lame joke is now more factually accurate
I could see it making some sense, barring the fact that Guam is part of the United States.
Yeah, that's just stupid.
Not like NYC doesn't see a lot of tourists either.
Had a friend from canada go to washington an almost got denied entry at a venue because the bouncer told him "we do not accept corporate ID's" after he showed him his alberta govt issued ID, dude wouldn't believe that alberta was a place a few hours drive away and not a corporation.
I recall hearing about someone from New Mexico who was turned down for some government program because they didn't accept applications from foreign countries. I believe a senator from NM sent a letter in reply.
"I don't care how new Mexico is, we only serve citizens of the US"
So.. They don't take any foreign guests at all? Seems short sighted
Lol I remember someone acting so incredulously because she got a Guam quarter as change and couldn't figure out why they "would put another country on our quarters"
I'm from Hawaii. Back in the dark ages of the 1950s, I moved to the East Coast US. Sooooo many people thought that Hawaii wasn't part of the US. Was asked for my passport numerous times.
TIL New Zealand is a rugby club with its own land and currency.
Excuse me but as a native New Zealander I find this offensive.
We in fact have a very rich and elegant culture outside of rugby, as detailed in the silmarillion /s
You guys also have Mark Hunt
He's lucky he's not an Aussie with a name like that.
M'cunt
And the dreaded Chupakiwi.
Mark Hunt lives in Australia now, because NZ is not on the map.
So would you happen to know where the ring is currently located?
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Proudfeet!
President McCaw is great at breaking down society's problems and is always there to support his fellow citizens.
He should have shown this woman how to get into a country without going through the customs gate.
I always though it was a giant sheep farm with its own currency
And they're all black
the bigger story is that Kiwis have apparently gained sentience and started traveling the world
That weird hyphen makes it sound that way, yes.
First we had lizard people, then crab people, now there are apparently kiwi people too! I bet they arrested her simply because they didn't like her beak.
New Zealand should just straight up invade Kazakhstan, there would be no way of a counter attack since they wouldn't know where to attack!
Mate the Kiwis are way too nice to do that
Are you kidding me? Just send 10,000 Uruk-hai.
What could men do against such reckless hate?
Yeah, I mean you could accomplish the same with 100 Māori tho...
"looks like meat's back on the menu bros"
I think you're overestimating our army. We once sent the navy to find an escaped otter.
Damn, sounds like otter devastation.
I grew up in Australia, we are the only ones allowed to pick on New Zealand. They might be inbred sheep shaggers, but their our inbred sheep shaggers goddammit!
So they're Australian-Welsh?
Fuck off you bigot none of us Welshies are inbred /s
no, you're insheep
A+ burn, would snort again
For some reason I read your comment in a Scottish accent and not Welsh.
I got you mate.
Fuck off ye fucking bigotted cunt, nane ae us Welshies arnie inbred. Fancy a pint tho eh?
Needs more Y's and L's
This is what I love about the NZ - Aussie relationship. It's so brotherly. Like you're obviously a nation of vulgar convicts but that's OUR banter thank you!!
They're *
I was detained by a TSA agent at Dulles in 2002 because she thought Edmonton, Alberta wasn't real and I was lying. I showed her my passport that had Edmonton listed as my city of birth. Her logical conclusion was that my passport was fake.
This was ~8 months post 9/11 so I didn't want to take any chances. I'm of East Indian descent but I'm fair skinned so people usually think I'm Arab. I tried calmly explaining that Edmonton was in fact a real place but she wasn't having none of it. She took me back to a holding room as she went to get her supervisor. At this point I was borderline laughing. The supervisor came in and she explained the situation. He looked at me apologized and handed me my passport almost instantly. The look on her face was priceless.
yeah well most people only know about Kazakhstan because of Borat..
Come Kazakhstan! Its nice!
I was so surprised how big it was.
Also, it's the #1 exporter of K.
All other east European countries have inferior potassium
All other countries have inferior Ketamine
Was waiting for the first Borat comment. currently in Kazakhstan AMA
Have you met his sister?
No. Have not.
best prostitute in Kazakhstan apparently
What about his cousin Bilo? He retard.
It's also the largest landlocked country in the world.
So they chose to go into space instead of the sea.
Apparently, she was told by a consulate that she didn't need a visitor's visa to Kazakhstan. Visa-free travel to Kazakhstan for Kiwis wasn't implemented until at the start of this year. So, when she was detained last year, she DID need a visa. Source: my Kazakh friend
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I don't know anything about the article, but that picture is BADASS!
"Miss, can you send us a picture of yourself to use in our article?"
"....any picture?"
I can't believe I got so far down in the comments before seeing someone else mention that.
It's funny because a lot of world maps don't include New Zealand (there is actually a whole subreddit dedicated to showing pictures of world maps without New Zealand).
Imagine if the Kazakhstani official pulled out a map and went "Show me! Show me your country!" and the map didn't have New Zealand on it and she's just like "...fuck"
That actually happened
r/NewZealandConspiracy
You'll be surprised how many Americans don't believe that new Mexico is a state.