You learn something new every day; what did you learn today? Submit interesting and specific facts about something that you just found out here.
[deleted]
TIL author Nathaniel Hawthorne added a W to his last name to hide his relation to his great-great grandfather John Hathorne, the only judge in the Salem Witch Trials to never repent of his actions.
Sorry, this post was deleted by the person who originally posted it.
Sort by:
Best
Open comment sort options
Best
Top
New
Controversial
Old
Q&A
"Nathaniel, don't you think you should just change your last name completely? Won't people still make the connection?"
"Nonsense, the extra letter will throw them off and nobody will even think about the Witch Trials."
"Okay, what letter are you going with?"
"W."
"...But..."
"It stands for witch."
or Wizard
Or Warlock
Nah wicken
Wicked
I heard Wicker Man
Nah, it means........ Wheretic.
Or whoopsie.
never forget.
At first I was sure the w stood for the witch's brew, but the I realized it definitely has to stand for the Wu-tang.
My man
"W as in Which trials? Not the Witch trials."
He should have change it to Hawkthorne. From Witch Killer.
A capital plan, John, a capital plan indeed.
Makes sense that so many of the villains/antagonists in his stories were Puritans.
I learned recently that he was writing around the time of the 50th anniversary of the end of the Revolutionary War and that many others wrote about the Puritans then as a way of looking back and reflecting on the country's progress. But his Puritan relative was a pretty notorious judge during the witch trials and that drove a lot of his historical studies.
Was this before he made a killing in the moist towelette industry?
and started wearing an ivory hairpiece lmfao
He started the company to help wipe away the sins of his fathers.
The mission was simple: Sell Moist Towelettes, wipe away the debt.
Fierce competition in the East from Red Dragon Wipes, though!
That reference is streets ahead buddy
I hate missing a joke, anyone mind explaining?
In the TV show community there is a character Pierce Hawthorne (played by Chevy chase) who is part of a moist towelette dynasty.
[Obligatory] ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eN1trwnxBhU)
But then he wrote about The Scarlet Letter to represent his own guilt over his family lineage and basically exposed himself.
I have zero guilt for what my ancestors did. I'm only responsible for my own actions.
Comment deleted by user
That actually makes a lot of sense and his line of thinking sounds a bit ahead of his time or at least different from his own time. Is that what he really believed at the time, or is that an original observation you made that fits in with that you read about Hawthorne?
He hid the ideas in the introduction to the book. It's very profound.
It's telling that you have to actually say that.
Not really if they're white and live in America
I'm sure my Irish peasant ancestors were really bad people. How dare they come to America in the late 1800s and start a bed and breakfast in new England. It is shameful that they were such terrible people.
Dude don't complain to me. I'm tired of people telling me I should feel like shit because I'm white too. My Irish ancestors didn't own slaves either, but hey all white people need to atone for slavery amirite?
We weren't white when we came here. Sounds strange, but it's true. We were considered a sub race, inferior to whites, the celts. Irish need not apply, discriminatory housing... our ancestors faced all of that after fleeing a famine. But if your ancestors are like mine, they served in WWII and were payed for their services in part through the GI bill, the benefits of which were not extended to their black brothers in arms. The Irish faced significant hardships in immigrating here, it took a long time for us to even be considered white. But once we were, we accrued benefits because of that, benefits that weren't extended to black Americans. My family never owned slaves, but my family recieved economic supports that weren't extended to others because of their race.
not sure if i get your drift completely or if you're talking about something different, but it's not about atoning. it's about equity.
it's about recognizing that because of slavery in the past, people today are worse off. they started off with less and had to go through more, both socially and economically. later (current) generations are still dealing with it. "ghettos", high crime rates, all of that can easily be traced back to the conditions (both social and economic) resulting from slavery.
it's the way history set the system up, there is no denying that.
earlier in the thread someone said they only have to worry about their own actions, not their ancestors'. well it's your responsibility (as a "good" person) to recognize these inequalities and do what you can about them. this is 100% the duty of the privileged.
I'm a white male and no one has ever told me I should be ashamed of it or feel like shit. Have you actually been told this or do you just have a victim complex? Please provide an example.
The slave owners were largely scots and English if I'm not overgeneralizing here. The Italians, Irish, and poles came later and were themselves discriminated against here and escaped persecution/poverty in their homelands. The Germans came later and settled into the Midwest (free states) along with the Scandinavians.
Of course there were exceptions, but for the most part the English instituted slavery and their descendants perpetuated it. It's not a coincidence that the cities and regions with the most immigrants and therefore diversity were free.
Tbf it's only leftist extremists that think this. They're a very vocal minority and make all leftists look bad because it's what the media hawks in on. Similar to how right-leaning extremists make the right look bad for the same reason.
your whiteness still gives you privilege due to structural racist ingrained meep meep I forget how all that leftist crap goes.
Well, people who don't feel at all guilty about something usually don't make a point of saying that they don't feel guilty.
No one ITT said anything about white people, btw. Not even the comment I replied to. You brought that up out of the blue. I just find that interesting, that's all.
It's not telling is the point I'm trying to make.
Spend long enough online and at some point or another you're gonna have to defend yourself against people who say you should be guilty for X or Y. And knowing Reddit's demographic the most common, and topical example is white guilt in America.
No reasonable person thinks white people of today are responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
White privilege (which is what ignorant people muddy with "white guilt") is a fact of life. If your parents played a game of monopoly with the black neighbors and cheated to gain the hotel advantage and then passed the board state to you and the black neighbors children, it is disingenuous to say you don't have a moral obligation to afford chances for the black neighbor's kids to catch up.
What a broad generalization. Most white people in America don't have American ancestors.
Like me. 3 different nationalities, none here too long.
No no no. That's seriously just really insecure white people moving the goal posts. Instead of being able to have an adult discussion about why certain communities have broken down due to traumatic histories, they like to pretend everything happens in a vacuum. Then they deflect by pretending people are asking them to feel guilty about what white people have done, when in reality they are only being asked to feel empathy and then use previous history to find reasons and solutions to move us all forward. It's a nice little victimized circle jerk they created for themselves but it's great for stifling self reflection.
What does this mean?
It tells me that his politics are prob shit
Relevant username?
In my genealogy research I recently found out that I am descended from the Putnam family of Salem Village. It was the last thing I expected because I'm not even American.
I'm not sure how I feel about it.
I'm not directly descended from the main accusers, and my ancestor Nathanial Putnam wrote a letter a letter to defend Rebecca Nurse and paid for the jail fees when his own slave Mary Black (a black woman) was accused of witchcraft.
So not so bad... but he was also a very early slave owner - so not so good.
Hawhawhaw that's hilarious
Hahaha. Burn him.
Huehuehue
He turned me into a newt.
I got better
Oh my, I knew I was related to the judge, didn't know I was related to this guy too.
Comment deleted by user
Hey, brother!
One of my family members, Andrew Eliot, was a juror during the trials, but he repented. Fun fact, another side of the family was actually accused of witchcraft and half the family added a letter to the surname (I'm from the side which did not).
TIL the judges repented
Hawthorne had some very good works!
I suggest you pick one up and read one while possibly having some sort of literary guide to help you digest the 1800s themes and whatnot.
The Hawthorne hotel is literally across the street from the Salem witch museum.
"You don't even know who i am" .
That Brilliant Fuckwer!
WOW. That's pretty cool. I think the Governor "Sir" William Phips was most accountable. He let the nonsense go on until they accused his wife and then dismantled the trials.
I'm Sheriff, John Hathorne N1: MAFIA!!!
Very interesting.
I'm directly related to Cotton and Increase Mather. Puritans and judges who were not the best people.
got a pocket full of hawthorns!!!!
In Sexual Personae Camille Paglia speculates Hawthorne added the W as a symbol of his identification with women.
That's some Dan Brown shit right there.
Ha, we sure showed him!
And all this time I thought the scarlet letter was an A...
I'm a descendant of Mary Towne Eastey, one of the victims of the witch trials. Sadly this remains the most interesting thing about me.
I'm a descendent of Margaret Scott, one of the victims... do you happen to still live in New England?
No, I am Canadian and my family has been for several generations now.
Likely loyalists that moved north during or after the revolutionary war?
Honestly don't have a clue. They moved to New Brunswick which is an East Coast province. Not sure if/how that would relate to your theory. I've never considered finding out why they immigrated to Canada. Maybe I will.
Nathaniel was streets ahead.
I've got one set of 6th-G-Grandparents where one's aunt was hung as a witch, and the other's uncle was the judge.
It also alleviates the confusion of thinking his name is pronounced "hat horn".
And now I want to know what a hat horn looks like.
The only one? Maybe I'm over estimating the scale of the Salem witch trials but I was under the impression they went on for years and killed hundreds of people. Are you telling me only one judge out of what I assume was dozens, only one judge was hard headed enough to die glad he did it?
"They were judged to be witches and we hanged them, justice served mother fuckers!"
The Scarlet W
They make those sanitary wipes too
Nah. He did so people didn't pronounce his last name "Hat-Horn".
"In the past men created witches, now they create mental patients." -Psychiatrist Thomas Szasz
HEY!!!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO NO WITCH HUNTING?
ohwaitithoughtyoumeanttheotherkind
It clearly did not work
Inno
So in 100 years, the richest family in the US will be the Truwmps?
Drumpfs
Dude is Hawt though.
A man who stood by his convictions...of others. No shame there.
My english teacher taught that it had something to do with the feminine side of his nature.
That's nice and all, Nate, but your writing is still crap.
The Salem Witch trials were real?
I kept thinking Nathaniel Hawthornew
Virtue Signalling to the max.
When you go out of your way to change your name and literally write a literary landmark denouncing the witch trials, you're not really virtue signaling anymore.
If only he had cared as much about writing books as he did about his last name...
Hester is the greatest female American character in literature.
you haven't read enough NSFW literature
...what?
he was a crap writer
Crap writer. One of the greatest American novelists. What's the difference really?
the Scarlet Letter shouldn't even be used as toilet paper
I think you're in a pretty small minority there, but okay. Sorry you don't like him.
The modern understanding is of a frenzied 'witch hunt' against innocent people. Read the transcripts of the trials. It isn't like these people were falsely accused, defended themselves, then were executed anyway. They flat out confess to worshiping satan and being witches
Yeah torture is great at getting confessions.
Not necessarily the truth.
Agreed
The only reason they confessed though is because they would only be pardoned if they confessed. Do you actually think these women were "witches"?
Aren't they all!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giles_Corey
Oh look, less than 5 seconds of googling later and you are proven wrong.
This guy refused to plead, and was tortured to death over several days without trial.
Read the testimony of the person accusing him and tell me again this wasn't some frenzied witch hunt against innocent people.
The person believed that AFTER he was imprisoned his apparition appeared to them and harmed them.
Because he refused to plead, the government was not entitled to possess his estate, so it went to his family.
In closing, I can say with absolute certainty that you are both ignorant and a fool if you believe that ANY kind of witch trial was fair or that the verdicts were just.
Wasn't that the guy who was pressed and asked for more weight?
Indeed it was
What a lad
Yes, read the transcripts - especially Martha Corey. Then come back with this silly argument.
Here's an example (among many http://salem.lib.virginia.edu/ ) for those that don't seem to believe me
The Examination and confession of Mary Barker of Andover
After severall questiones propounded and negative answe'rs returned she at last acknowledged that Goody Johnson made her a witch, And that #[this] sometine last #[spring] sumer she made a red mark in the devils book with the forefinger of her Left hand, And the Devil would have her hurt martha Sprague Rose foster and Abigail martin which she did upon Saturnday and Sabath day last, she said she was not above a quarter of an hour in comeing down from Andover to Salem to afflict, she sayes she afflicted the above three persones bye squeezeing her hands. she confesses she was at the witch meeting at Salem Village with her unkle, there was a great many theire, and of her company their was only her unkle, W'm Barker and mary marston Martha Sprague said that Mary Barkers apparition told that she was baptised at five myle pond.