Earlier this year, I sat down with producer Deborah Snyder for an extensive interview about her upcoming Warner Bros. release Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. You can read the initial excerpts of that interview here (where she first revealed Cyborg would appear in The Flash). Today, I have a little more of our discussion about the DCU's new Batman, as portrayed to much acclaim by Ben Affleck. Affleck will direct his own solo Batman movie, which he co-wrote with President of DC Entertainment Geoff Johns, and I'll have more about that project in future articles. As we approach Suicide Squad's third weekend in release (it should reach at least $540 million) and as we contemplate the new cinematic Joker and array of other bat-villains, it's worth looking back at the ideas that went into rebooting the Caped Crusader and how his relationship with Superman would play out.
Image courtesy of Warner Bros
So here is more from Deborah Snyder, producer of Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and many more of the DCU films coming your way!
What was it like to come into this project where you're creating a new Batman so soon after the success of Christopher Nolan's trilogy? I mean, I love it and I'll tell you I think Ben Affleck was the best cinematic Batman so far, but was there any early hesitation about the timing and following up a billion dollar Batman?
DS: No, here's the thing. Zack wanted someone who's older, who has some gravitas, right? Because it's some nice juxtaposition to Henry's [Cavill] Superman. He's just becoming this hero, and he's trying to figure out what that all means. And then here we have this guy Batman who's been doing it for years and years, and he's getting jaded because every time he-- you know, he says this great line, about how, "they're like weeds, Alfred, every time you pick one, another one grows back in its place."
That's how he feels right now. He's scarred physically, he's scarred emotionally, he's seen a lot from the brutal deaths of his parents. Crime has been his whole life, basically, and fighting it. He's at this crossroads where he loses hope and he doesn't know if it matters anymore -- his whole life, what he's been doing, has it really mattered? And it's not until Superman comes along and -- without spoiling it -- what he ends up doing and the sacrifice he makes allows [Batman] to get his hope back.
Someone who's an alien, someone who this is his adopted family and home if someone is able to do that, it gives him [Batman] his hope back. And that's pretty cool, I think.
Image courtesy of Warner Bros
...I didn't grow up reading comics, I came to it later in life. For me to see these characters and [realize] there are these rich stories and sure, you could go to it for the spectacle and action -- it has all of that and kids can go to it, and it's Batman and Superman who are going to fight -- but there's something deeper and it's so multilayered, you realize it after.
Obviously, we're so intimate with it, but there were times even when I didn't realize that [Chris] Terrio wrote a brilliant script. Some of Jessie's [Eisenberg] dialogue, I was like, "Oh my god, he really means this!" And it wasn't until I saw the first cut of the movie that I saw it, but I'd been reading the script. Because there's just so much, there's so much in it. That's what makes it interesting, that it can be all of those things, but also be about something else, you know?
Image courtesy of Warner Bros
And it's all so human, right? It's about these journeys. I mean, Zack really loves Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey. And these characters are just so mythic, and their journeys-- I always say they're journeys are what we can relate to. Because we can't relate to their powers, so what do you have?
That's the great thing about our Superman. He is more relatable. Someone said, "It's so dark," and I go, "Well, is it dark? He's going through real problems that we go through as people every day." To me that's not dark, that's life. We're complicated people. And we're making him in that way more relatable.
Image courtesy of Warner Bros
So I don't think that's dark, I think that's just who we are. People are complex, we're not strictly just the good Boy Scout trying to do good. He does want to do good, and I think all of the things Superman represents are who he is, but he also stumbles along the way and learns from it. To me, that's so much more interesting.
Yes, he's someone who is conscious of the fact that every moment of their life has to be done in service to the good -- which is something we have the luxury of not having to do. That's one of the most interesting debates of the film for me, this idea that he can't do ANYthing to help other people without everything he does being scrutinized and perceived as, "This has global implications," because of his power in a conceptual sense.
DS: Yes.
None of us-- we don't have to walk around worrying about [the reaction] if you see somebody about to be hit by a car, and you grab them and save them. But if Superman did that, it would become about him interfering in daily human life -- and why he interferes here but not over there. You see it weighing on him, and his idea, "I was raised like the rest of you, except I have the power to save everybody, but nobody wants me to. What am I supposed to do?"
DS: I think also, too, at first he doesn't realize there are implications, he doesn't realize there are consequences to his actions. He thinks he's doing something good, but then I think he's surprised and taken back that, "Oh, this is much more complicated."
It's interesting, I love the scene with him and Martha [Kent] because she's so grounding. She knows because her life has been complicated since the moment they found him, right? And they've been trying to protect him and shelter him. She says, "Oh, son, it was never easy. It was always complicated." And it's the first time I think he's realizing that because they tried to protect him as much as they could. But now the world knows about him, you know? So it's a whole different story.
Thanks again to Deborah Snyder for such a great discussion, and for being part of the team bringing us a live-action DCU!
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