Being Happier at Work

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I’m Sarah Green Carmichael.

Today, I’m talking with Emma Seppala, science director of Stanford’s Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education. She’s the author of the brand new book, The Happiness Track, How to Apply the Science of Happiness to Accelerate Your Success. Emma, thank you so much for talking with us today.

EMMA SEPPALA: Oh, you’re more than welcome. I’m happy to be here.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So I thought we should just start by talking about how you define success in the purposes of the book because you started, I thought was really interesting, with a quote from late poet Maya Angelou, who actually was one of my all-time favorite interviews that we’ve done on the IdeaCast. That was a few years ago. But she stuck out in my mind.

And the quote you start with is, “Success is liking yourself, liking what you do, and liking how you do it.” So was that your working definition for success in the book? Or did you have a different way of thinking about it? And does money come into it at all?

EMMA SEPPALA: Well, the way that I am presenting in the book, which is really what I found in the research, is that there is a way for you to maximize your potential, to be as successful as you possibly can be. And that way is really to maximize your own happiness and well-being.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: And that’s interesting because I feel like there is a sense to which you need a certain amount of money to make that happen. But really, your book is about finding inner success, I would say, like a point at which you feel content, as opposed to the trappings of success that so many of us associate with that term.

EMMA SEPPALA: This is true. And success is going to look different for different people. So if you’re a ballerina, money may not be your measure of success. It may be making it to a certain level of performance, for example. Same thing if you’re in the military. You’re going to be successful as judged by something other than your salary.

But what I’m talking about in The Happiness Track is that most people have the misconception that in order to be successful, they have to sacrifice their well-being now, with the idea that success will lead to happiness later. But I’m hoping that the book will provide some relief to people because what research is actually showing is that if you really take care of your own well-being, you will actually be more resilient to stress, you’ll be more creative and innovative, able to think outside the box. You’ll have better relationships with your colleagues, with your managers, with your clients. And you’ll have better health and possibly even greater longevity. So there’s a lot to be said for the need to really take care of yourself rather than sacrificing yourself in your quest for success.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Well, and we’re starting to get into a little bit, I think, how you define happiness. But I want to tackle that definition head on as well because I think sometimes in the popular press, you see pushback against scientists and researchers using the term “happiness” because it sort of like, that’s not a scientific term. But yet, that’s the word most of us use. It’s the word you use in this book. Tell me a little bit about why, as someone who is totally a scientist and is familiar with all this, why you claim that word.

EMMA SEPPALA: “Happiness” is definitely a simplistic word. And in a lot of ways, it’s a catchall term. And it certainly can sound overly simplistic, not just as a scientist, but in general because we all have periods of suffering in our lives. That’s pretty much inevitable.

And what I’m suggesting here is not that we walk around with a big smile on our face at all times. I’m just sharing the science that persuasively demonstrates that if we can prioritize ourselves, taking care of ourselves in the form of taking time off, being kind to ourselves, building positive relationships, we’re actually going to be more resilient to the stresses of life. And it’s going to give you an edge career-wise. So it’s a win-win. But again, we don’t have to sacrifice ourselves to be successful. On the country, you’ll be more successful if you don’t.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: I want to also ask you a little bit about the intensity of the feelings we’re talking about here because that’s not something that we think about a lot. But you have a really great section in the book where you talk about high intensity versus low intensity emotions. And that is something that has not gotten as much attention as say, positive versus negative feelings. Why is it so important to think about the intensity of the feelings as well?

EMMA SEPPALA: When you ask Americans how they define happiness, they’re going to define it in high intensity terms such as “excited,” “elated.” And those are the kinds of terms we use every day to describe our enthusiasm about things. But if you look at Eastern societies, for example, in Eastern societies, you’ll find that they define “happiness” very differently. They define them with low intensity emotions, just “calm” and “contentment,” for example.

So we value high intensity positive emotions. We also value high intensity negative emotions. Many people thrive on stress. And so in a sense, there is this addiction to a high intensity experience, whether it’s positive or negative.

So not to say that there’s anything wrong with feeling excited. I mean, that’s a wonderful feeling. And same with stress. Sometimes just that little extra stress is going to help you get through your deadline.

But if these things are chronic, what you’re doing is you’re exhausting your physiology because your physiology is always in a state of high adrenaline, whether it’s for a positive experience or a negative experience, whether it’s excitement or stress. And so what we’re doing here is unwittingly completely depleting ourselves.

So what I’m proposing in The Happiness Track is that you learn to manage your energy and stamina, and teaching in some ways in which you can retain your energy by not always living in a high intensity mode, but rather reserving those high intensity experiences for times when you really need them. And that will help a lot with preventing burnout. And most importantly, you’ll be able to save precious mental energy for the tasks that need it most.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Well, and it’s interesting because I think as we’re chatting here about stress and burnout and thinking how many pieces I have read over the years that will say in order to become happier at work, you have to minimize these things like stress and burnout. And it’s just occurring to me right now as we’re talking that your book is a little bit different. It’s not just about minimizing the bads. It’s about getting more of the goods.

EMMA SEPPALA: Balance.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Yeah, how do you advise people to think about both tactics to minimize stress and burnout, but also actual positive things you can do to be happier, not just minimizing stress?

EMMA SEPPALA: What we know is that, just as we are built for fight-or-flight, we are also built to relax and restore ourselves. There are two systems in our body. One is the sympathetic nervous system, which is again, that which gears us up for a fight-or-flight, helps make our attention and our memory really acute, helps boost our immune system so that we can be resilient if we were to get wounded in a certain stressful experience, for example.

But at the same time, we have the parasympathetic nervous system, which we’re supposed to tap into right after a stressful episode, which helps the body to recover and helps the body to strengthen itself up again. And what we end up doing a lot is just living in sympathetic activation mode all the time, which is why you’re also seeing that people have huge sleep problems. They don’t even know how to relax anymore. In fact, just as people are depending on substances to get themselves really motivated and a little anxious in the morning to get going, like coffee, well then, what happens at the end of the day, people are relying on alcohol because that’s the only way that they can relax.

But what I’m trying to share with people is that we have the innate ability to relax into a calmer physiology. And if we work on that– and again, it’s not a lot of work. It’s very natural. For example, breathing exercises are something that are very effective, very quickly. You can actually train your nervous system to relax more quickly, to tap into the parasympathetic nervous system as easily as you do into the sympathetic nervous system.

And what happens with that is that you become more resilient. You can be in the same stressful situation, but you’re not going to be as impacted. You’re not going to be as harmed by your health or well-being, et cetera. Your thinking is going to stay clear. And you’ll stay calmer.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So I am interested– you’ve mentioned breathing exercises a couple times. And I’m interested in hearing a little bit more about these breathing exercises. Is there one in particular that you could describe, so people can try this at home?

EMMA SEPPALA: Absolutely. I mean, the simplest thing that we know is that your heart rate increases when you breathe in, and it decreases when you breathe out. So lengthening your exhales start to calm you down. So that’s the easy thing you can do. Even if you’re in a board meeting or in a stressful situation. When you’re talking to someone, nobody needs to notice what you’re doing. You’re simply exhaling for a longer period of time.

The other thing we know is that breathing deeply also will help calm you down. It’s something you can do in the morning for five minutes. Really, it’s so easy. Set a timer. And you set the tone for the day. And it’s also something you can do anytime, anywhere, when you’re in the car, in a traffic jam, wherever it is. And that can really start to slow everything down a little bit.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: OK, great, thank you. I wanted to ask you also about self-compassion. I hear from a lot of people like readers, successful ambitious people, that they will do the breathing stuff, they will try mindfulness, they will do a lot of these things. But what they have the hardest time with is really getting a better relationship with that inner critic.

I think a lot of people credit their inner critic with really being able to motivate them and help them. And they’ll say things like, well, I have high standards. But I’m not harder on anyone else than I am on myself, almost as a point of pride. And you really, in the book, talk about why that’s not helpful. And so could you just talk us through some of that?

EMMA SEPPALA: Absolutely. I mean, whether we’re high-powered executives or stay-at-home moms, I think self-criticism is a tendency that many people struggle with, women in particular, actually. And we do believe that self-criticism pushes us to perform better and live up to higher standards.

But actually self-criticism is basically self-sabotage. Research shows that it keeps you focused on what’s wrong with you rather than what’s right, thereby decreasing your confidence.

It also makes you afraid of failure, which, when you live and work with a fear of failure, it hurts your performance. It makes you give up more easily, make poorer decisions, and basically, less likely to try new things. And it also makes you less resilient in the face of failure and less likely to learn and grow from your mistakes. So self-criticism is actually not helpful at all.

Self-compassion sounds like a really soft term. But it actually is an incredible approach to yourself because it really does boost your potential for success.

So by compassion, I mean treating yourself as you would a friend. So let’s say one of your friends fails, makes a mistake, and comes to you. What are you going to say? You’re probably not going to say things that are going to be destructive to that person. You’re probably going to encourage them. You’re going to remind them, everybody makes mistakes. No big deal. And you’re going to be more gentle with them.

And so treating yourself that way, research shows, leads to greater happiness, less anxiety and depression than self-criticism, better health, lower stress, better emotional intelligence and relationships with other people, more motivation, will power, greater perspective, and again, that resilience to help you bounce back in the face of mistakes. And you’re more likely to grow from your experiences. And so it has tremendous value for people.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Emma, as you’re talking about the world of work here, I’m reminded of a number of the articles that you’ve written for HBR over the years about the power of positivity in the workplace and how it really leads to higher engagement and better corporate returns and all kinds of good business outcomes, not just interpersonal outcomes. And I guess I’m just wondering if there is so much evidence out there that this really works and has a business bottom line benefit as well as interpersonal benefits, how come these myths of overwork and stress, how come these myths persist? How come we’re still bumbling along and making a hash of this?

EMMA SEPPALA: Well, in some ways, we are tied to very outdated theories, maybe starting with survival of the fittest, which people attribute to Darwin. But Darwin actually never said such a thing. The term was actually coined by someone who wanted to justify social hierarchies and therefore, adopted Darwin’s findings to this idea. But Darwin was more likely to say, actually, that those people who were more likely to survive among our ancestors were those who really thrived with communities that were characterized by what he called sympathy.

But unfortunately, in our current day and age in workplaces, there’s this idea that a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog atmosphere is really the only way to go. You’ve got to push everyone out of the way. You’ve got to get ahead. But this is an outdated view.

And I talk about this in my book, as well. But workplaces that are characterized by this kind of culture are not workplaces whose employees will remain. They are probably places that have very high turnover. And they are places that also see a lot of costs related to stress and other such things.

So again, there are a lot of workplaces that are thriving and they are places of high turnover. Perhaps, they hire very young people. And they know that they’re only going to keep them for a short duration of time, for example.

But what we know is that for an organization to thrive over the long term, you really need to take care of your employees and also to inspire them. So we’re talking here that the leadership really has to be committed to a workplace that’s characterised by strong human values.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Great, thank you. I agree. [LAUGHS] Anything else that you give people advice on what to go home and do differently today?

EMMA SEPPALA: Absolutely. And this is one of that can seem hard, but it’s actually the easiest thing in the world is to do more of nothing.

And research shows that CEOs currently value creativity above all other skills in their employees. Yet research also shows that there is currently a creativity crisis, that creativity scores are dropping dramatically among younger people entering the workforce. And so where does creativity come from? And we always hear buzzwords of like innovation and disruption and so forth. That’s all about creativity. That’s all about being able to see something other people don’t see because the don’t think outside the box.

And what we know from research on creativity is that creativity does not come when you are in an overly focused, overly stressed mental state. Creativity comes when you’re not doing something focused. Creativity emerges when you’re idle, when you’re having fun. Maybe you’re running in the park with your dog, playing with your child. Creativity comes when you’re in the shower. That’s the proverbial idea in the shower. And it’s absolutely true. Creativity emerges right before sleep, when you’re in that space where you’re not quite awake, not quite asleep, when you’re in that dreamy, day-dreamy space.

And so I hope this gives people an excuse to not feel guilty when they take time off because it’s only by taking time off, by diversifying your experience, by making room in your life to play and have some fun that you’re actually going to start to see things differently and that you’re going to come up with your most breakthrough, genius ideas.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: That is really inspiring and uplifting. Thank you so much, Emma.

EMMA SEPPALA: You’re welcome.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: That was Stanford’s Emma Seppala. The book is The Happiness Track. For more of Emma’s writing, go to hbr.org.