Returning after dismissal. Sage advice

Yo.Adrian · Jul 23, 2015

Its taken me a while to seek advice about my situation, but time is forcing me to make a decision. I was dismissed from pharmacy school the summer before 2nd year in 2007 after failing my 4th course. At first I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to do pharmacy and sabotaged myself in a few classes, placed on probation, cut off from the parental lifeline, got back in working part time to cashflow bills and ended up biting the last failure in the summer. I have since earned my respiratory therapist license and a bachelors and now work in a large hospital ICU. Anyone that has ever failed at something as large as pharmacy school can understand the "unfinished business" mindset acting as a dragging ball in chain. I'm 30 years old now, not married, no kids and have an opportunity to get back in pharmacy school. The philosophy I have developed in life is to finish what I start, no matter what it is. Not accepted yet, but if so would it be wise to go back and get this degree done or simply cut my losses? Any pharmacists in the field or PharmD's who went back and finished?

trailerpark · Jul 23, 2015

How much are you making now for a salary? How much more do you plan to make as a pharmacist and how much debt do you think you'll graduate with?

Estrace · Jul 23, 2015

Don't do it. Go get a masters in Respiratory therapy instead.

GoldfishPharmD · Jul 24, 2015

What makes this time different? You said you didn't like pharmacy before. Do you like it now or do you just want to go back to prove to yourself that you can finish it? If you found a passion in pharmacy, go for it but it doesn't really sound that way to me. I would save the money and debt. Respiratory therapist seems like a good stable field, so I'd just keep doing that.

PharmtoCS · Jul 24, 2015

Also, the job market has changed drastically since 2007. Back then you could have gotten a signing bonus just for graduating and having a pulse, but now the job market is extremely saturated.

Yo.Adrian · Jul 24, 2015

trailerpark said:
How much are you making now for a salary? How much more do you plan to make as a pharmacist and how much debt do you think you'll graduate with?

I make around 40K at the hospital working 40hrs/week 12hr shifts. I also do home care making $100/day working around an hr a day..so around $52k/year. The clinical pharmacists I work with now make around 80K. I work in a 800 bed hospital in florida, not sure of other places in the country, but would be willing to move anywhere. Texas Southern is the only school I know of that will accept my old prerequisites and there tuition is around 20k/year (tuition only) out of state, 14k/year in state. Im looking at around 160k completely financing 4years or 62k tuition only. I have 65k already in loans.

Estrace said:
Don't do it. Go get a masters in Respiratory therapy instead.

Getting a masters degree has crossed my mind, but there is practically nothing I could do with a masters in RT. Some RT get a masters in Anesthesia Assistant due to its vast similarities to RT and vast gap in pay (like 80k difference). So in a sense AA could be seen as a pseudo masters in RT.

GoldfishPharmD said:
What makes this time different? You said you didn't like pharmacy before. Do you like it now or do you just want to go back to prove to yourself that you can finish it? If you found a passion in pharmacy, go for it but it doesn't really sound that way to me. I would save the money and debt. Respiratory therapist seems like a good stable field, so I'd just keep doing that.

This time I'm more mature and have a better understanding of the discipline needed to finish. Before I was very naive and expected grade handouts. Now I do not. In my first semester of PHA school I lost my motivation, possibly due to my associations. After returning from probation I enjoyed the academic material, but was working to much to focus. I round with clinical pharmacists and MDs and find the pharmacist involvment appealing. Part of me, I must admit, wants to prove myself capable and finish what I started. I agree RT is a stable field, but in this economy nothing is what it seems. RT is just a dead end field.

Son_Goku · Jul 24, 2015

Sounds like you've already made up your mind in the OP. You've got some unfinished businesses and old matters to settle so go and handle it.

Lubeckd · Jul 24, 2015

Have you thought about other ways to make money?
Situation is not really good in pharmacy, but you sound like you made up your mind.

Jbrl · Jul 24, 2015

Going back to school for 4 years and 150k debt because you have a chip on your shoulder doesn't seem like the best idea. You've focused a lot on previous mistakes and not what you're looking to do going forward or why pharmacy would be a good idea for you. I vote "cut my losses" and "get a Masters."

gwarm01 · Jul 24, 2015

80k per year? Damn, and I thought I was underpaid. You mind sharing what region you're in? Broward has about that many beds and I'm pretty sure they pay more than that.

Yo.Adrian · Jul 25, 2015

gwarm01 said:
80k per year? Damn, and I thought I was underpaid. You mind sharing what region you're in? Broward has about that many beds and I'm pretty sure they pay more than that.

I might have confused the 80k with another profession, if that seems low then they probably get paid more. I work at Shands Hospital in Gainesville.

BidingMyTime · Jul 25, 2015

Yo.Adrian said:
The philosophy I have developed in life is to finish what I start, no matter what it is.

Any "absolute" philosophy is a terrible philosophy. Would you go back to a horrible ex boyfriend/girlfriend you broke up with, just because you have to "finish what you start." What if you had been a criminal planning a mastermind crime, then decided crime doesn't pay, would you decide you should return to being a criminal to "finish what you start?" What if you were drowning, and a lifeguard saved you, would you decide to jump back into the water to "finish what you start?"

Seriously, the wise person will realize that sometimes what they have started is a terrible mistake, and they stop and do not finish that mistake. Why in the world you would you go back to pharmacy? You had failing grades, you didn't enjoy it, you have moved on with your life and have a decent job. Don't let your pride lead you into making a big mistake.

GoldfishPharmD · Jul 25, 2015

BidingMyTime said:
Any "absolute" philosophy is a terrible philosophy. Would you go back to a horrible ex boyfriend/girlfriend you broke up with, just because you have to "finish what you start." What if you had been a criminal planning a mastermind crime, then decided crime doesn't pay, would you decide you should return to being a criminal to "finish what you start?" What if you were drowning, and a lifeguard saved you, would you decide to jump back into the water to "finish what you start?"

Seriously, the wise person will realize that sometimes what they have started is a terrible mistake, and they stop and do not finish that mistake. Why in the world you would you go back to pharmacy? You had failing grades, you didn't enjoy it, you have moved on with your life and have a decent job. Don't let your pride lead you into making a big mistake.

This. From what I read, it seems like you don't really have a passion for pharmacy and you just want to be able to say that you were able to complete this time and for whatever financial gains you'd have over your current job. In all honesty, I don't think it'll be worth it for you. You'll be giving up years to complete your degree and going into a lot of debt for not that good of a reason to go back to pharmacy. I say let it go.

Son_Goku · Jul 28, 2015

GoldfishPharmD said:
This. From what I read, it seems like you don't really have a passion for pharmacy and you just want to be able to say that you were able to complete this time and for whatever financial gains you'd have over your current job. In all honesty, I don't think it'll be worth it for you. You'll be giving up years to complete your degree and going into a lot of debt for not that good of a reason to go back to pharmacy. I say let it go.

He's only two years away from a PharmD.

If he's capable and willing, why not?

Corpseman · Jul 28, 2015

Son_Goku said:
He's only two years away from a PharmD.

If he's capable and willing, why not?

8 years ago. I would find it hard to believe that any school would honor those two years at this point.

GoldfishPharmD · Jul 28, 2015

Son_Goku said:
He's only two years away from a PharmD.

If he's capable and willing, why not?

He stated above how much 4 years of pharmacy school would cost him? Where did you get that he only has 2 years left to get his Pharm.D? Once you fail out, you don't get to start where you left off in most cases.

Yo.Adrian · Jul 29, 2015

BidingMyTime said:
Any "absolute" philosophy is a terrible philosophy. Would you go back to a horrible ex boyfriend/girlfriend you broke up with, just because you have to "finish what you start." What if you had been a criminal planning a mastermind crime, then decided crime doesn't pay, would you decide you should return to being a criminal to "finish what you start?" What if you were drowning, and a lifeguard saved you, would you decide to jump back into the water to "finish what you start?"

Seriously, the wise person will realize that sometimes what they have started is a terrible mistake, and they stop and do not finish that mistake. Why in the world you would you go back to pharmacy? You had failing grades, you didn't enjoy it, you have moved on with your life and have a decent job. Don't let your pride lead you into making a big mistake.

I really do appreciate all the responses. I see the point you are trying to portray in your analogies, although slightly off base. Some things do need to be let go and that statement has made me think harder. I really did want to finish pharmacy while in school and was sure I would have been a great pharmacist, however, as heard a million times before,"I just worked too many hours."

Times are indeed different. The economics say go get a masters. And yes I would be starting from scratch if accepted. I heard someone say the decision you will be satisfied with is the decision you make. It would not be wrong to go back to pharmacy school. Neither would it be wrong to go get a masters. I just have to consider the options and wisdom and make my decision.

W19 · Jul 29, 2015

Yo.Adrian said:
Its taken me a while to seek advice about my situation, but time is forcing me to make a decision. I was dismissed from pharmacy school the summer before 2nd year in 2007 after failing my 4th course. At first I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to do pharmacy and sabotaged myself in a few classes, placed on probation, cut off from the parental lifeline, got back in working part time to cashflow bills and ended up biting the last failure in the summer. I have since earned my respiratory therapist license and a bachelors and now work in a large hospital ICU. Anyone that has ever failed at something as large as pharmacy school can understand the "unfinished business" mindset acting as a dragging ball in chain. I'm 30 years old now, not married, no kids and have an opportunity to get back in pharmacy school. The philosophy I have developed in life is to finish what I start, no matter what it is. Not accepted yet, but if so would it be wise to go back and get this degree done or simply cut my losses? Any pharmacists in the field or PharmD's who went back and finished?

Look into PA...

W19 · Jul 29, 2015

Jbrl said:
Going back to school for 4 years and 150k debt because you have a chip on your shoulder doesn't seem like the best idea. You've focused a lot on previous mistakes and not what you're looking to do going forward or why pharmacy would be a good idea for you. I vote "cut my losses" and "get a Masters."

A master in RT might not increase his income potential that much IMO...

lcow2004 · Jul 29, 2015

Yo.Adrian said:
I really do appreciate all the responses. I see the point you are trying to portray in your analogies, although slightly off base. Some things do need to be let go and that statement has made me think harder. I really did want to finish pharmacy while in school and was sure I would have been a great pharmacist, however, as heard a million times before,"I just worked too many hours."

Times are indeed different. The economics say go get a masters. And yes I would be starting from scratch if accepted. I heard someone say the decision you will be satisfied with is the decision you make. It would not be wrong to go back to pharmacy school. Neither would it be wrong to go get a masters. I just have to consider the options and wisdom and make my decision.

I think there are both pros and cons of each and you just have to consider both before you decide. I am leaning towards you going for pharmacy. If you've been in it before, you likely know where you need to improve this time around to be successful and that should be a huge leg up for you in being a great pharmacist. Like you said, I think if you just work less (or don't work at all), there's no doubt you will do fine. If you are sure you would be a great pharmacist, then you should go an be that great pharmacist and not let what anyone here tell you deter you from that decision.

Jbrl · Jul 29, 2015

W19 said:
A master in RT might not increase his income potential that much IMO...

Could be another Master's, not necessarily RT

BidingMyTime · Jul 31, 2015

Yo.Adrian said:
I heard someone say the decision you will be satisfied with is the decision you make. It would not be wrong to go back to pharmacy school. Neither would it be wrong to go get a masters. I just have to consider the options and wisdom and make my decision.

I disagree with that. People make wrong decisions all the time, and they end up quite dissatisfied with them (that is why there are so many divorces, for just 1 example.) A better quote would be, whatever decision you make, that is the decision you will have to live with.

Yo.Adrian · Aug 29, 2015

All the responses and advice has really helped. I've decided to go the PA route. Starting from scratch with the debt load doesn't make sense. With my RT experience I would do AA before Pharm D, and if I'm going to do AA, I might as well do PA, as PA's can work in all 50 states and wouldn't get boring after a while like AA (IMO).

I just didn't want to make a decision in a vacuum. Thanks!

W19 · Aug 29, 2015

@Yo.Adrian Great decision. Wish you all the best!

Digsbe · Aug 29, 2015

Good luck with PA! Honestly if you are questioning pharmacy I wouldn't go for it just to prove you can finish a PharmD. As a PA you'll probably have excellent job prospects in an area with growing salary and satisfaction. I've considered PA or direct entry NP after PharmD if I want to do something more clinical on the side.

rph3664 · Aug 31, 2015

Digsbe said:
Good luck with PA! Honestly if you are questioning pharmacy I wouldn't go for it just to prove you can finish a PharmD. As a PA you'll probably have excellent job prospects in an area with growing salary and satisfaction. I've considered PA or direct entry NP after PharmD if I want to do something more clinical on the side.

Do you also have a nursing degree? I thought you had to have a BSN before becoming an NP.

Digsbe · Aug 31, 2015

rph3664 said:
Do you also have a nursing degree? I thought you had to have a BSN before becoming an NP.

No, but there are some direct entry NP programs that allow you to start without one. I think some make you do a few online classes though while there. Either way NP or PA will take 2 years or so I believe.

BidingMyTime · Aug 31, 2015

Digsbe said:
No, but there are some direct entry NP programs that allow you to start without one. I think some make you do a few online classes though while there. Either way NP or PA will take 2 years or so I believe.

In a direct entry program, the person earns their MSN and then their NP, so it takes considerably longer than the standard 2 years for an NP or PA (around 5 years.)

W19 · Aug 31, 2015

BidingMyTime said:
In a direct entry program, the person earns their MSN and then their NP, so it takes considerably longer than the standard 2 years for an NP or PA (around 5 years.)

It's 3 year full time for NP ... 2-3 years for PA.

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